We loved meeting Adrian Koehler and having him on our podcast! Adrian Koehler, is the Founder and Senior Partner at Take New Ground, a leadership coaching, training, and consulting firm based in Los Angeles.
TNG partners with select executives and organizations to get the results they want by creating the culture they need and the host of The Naked Leadership Podcast.
Adrian is a leadership engagement expert and senior partner at the executive coaching firm, Take New Ground. He coaches executives and entrepreneurs in the art and science of leadership for themselves, their teams, and clients to create new, unprecedented results and experience fulfillment in their work.
Resources:
LinkedIn
Take New Ground Website
The Naked Leadership Podcast
Transcript
John Simon Sr. 00:06
John, welcome to Simon Says, inspire a podcast about life, leadership and building legacies. I'm John Simon, SR
Dina Simon 00:14
and I'm Dina Simon.
John Simon Sr. 00:16
Our guest today is Adrian Kohler. Adrienne is a leadership engagement expert and senior partner at the executive coaching firm hate newground. He coaches executives and entrepreneurs in the art and science of leadership for themselves their teams and clients to create new, unprecedented results and experience fulfillment in their work. Adrian, welcome to our podcast.
Adrian Koehler 00:41
So great to be here. Thanks for having me. Well,
John Simon Sr. 00:44
this is one of the few podcasts that we have somewhat on that we've never met before, so that's a new experience for us, so that's going to be a lot of fun, and I'm sure our listeners will get a thrill out of hearing all about you and the businesses that you're in, and I do have to ask about your podcast, the naked leadership podcast. How did that come about?
Adrian Koehler 01:08
Well, I forget how we got to the name of it, but I you know, we've been at it for, I don't know, four or five years or something now. I mean, it came out of a handful of reasons. One is that we kind of the big myth, I say it's a myth is this whole very, very easily understood and very easily accepted view that it's lonely at the top. Now, I know what people mean by that, sure, and then they usually people say it, I think, to justify the world that they've created for themselves, they end up complaining about it. So our stand really, is that it doesn't have to be that lonely. I mean, usually it's only lonely because I'm not asking for help, I'm not reaching out, I'm not, you know, really generating a world around me that I feel seen, connected with, have a lot of access to other people that are going through the same thing. So part of the purpose of the podcast has been to let people know that what they're going through isn't unique. It's it's very well known. It's but, I mean, when you decide to step up as a leader, you are standing out, and you have to leave the crowd. And so there is some kind of loneliness in that. But it doesn't have to be that lonely, especially if you can connect with other people that are going through the same thing. So part of it came out of that, that to fight the despair that happens. I think with a lot of leaders. I know I've been through that at times in different seasons of my life. I think every leader goes through that. It's probably just necessary you walk the desert before you hit the Promised Land, metaphorically speaking. So that's part of the that's necessary. But also, you know, we were always having these very vital conversations with our clientele, and we thought, you know, if we could save somebody some time, save them some pain, then we'd like to do that. So it became this conversation that we could just share what we're learning, what our clients are learning, what we're learning with our clients, and so that maybe you can give a roadmap to people as they're walking through it. And not so much of what's in all the books today and on everywhere over the internet is like, here's the solution, you know, here's the formula, do these five things. There's a lot of people that do that really well. We're not that type of people. We want to talk about what the experience is like and like, kind of what's going on behind the scenes, like in the kind of belief world, which is where most of our life happens for us anyway, what we think about things, how we feel about things, what our experience is, both the experience that probably naturally comes to us, or the one that we're curating, and we don't know we're curating it. So we try to have those conversations so naked leadership, in the sense that if you do leadership, well, it's going to be vulnerable if you, you know, if you stick yourself out there and become have this growth mindset or whatever. So we want to just, you know, be the space in which people can listen, they can say, Ah, yes, that's what I'm going through. And then how do we get through it? Well,
John Simon Sr. 03:45
I was impressed when I started looking. And there were 238, episodes out there. So this is our 23rd so we're about to 10% line for where, sure, where you're at. We're just learning and putting it all together, but you have a lot of experience behind you in doing it.
Adrian Koehler 04:02
We love it. You know, we just started shifting it too. I mean, we didn't follow the interviewing people template. We've done that some, but to be honest, those are at least listened to episodes, sure. So we've done more. What are the themes that we know people are going through that we could use more language around number one. And then some clients started saying, hey, you need to post on the podcast coaching, like live coaching, because that's kind of they kept saying, You guys do the locker room talk before and after the game, but we don't get to see the game. So we've just started now doing some live coaching. And it's, it's a little bit, you know, interesting to meet somebody out of nowhere and then have a live coaching session that gets posted online. So we're learning how to do that really well, but we've got several of those up, and are going to keep doing those more and more. So, you know, we're always experimenting, and the aim is just to generate resource for people
Dina Simon 04:52
absolutely sure,
John Simon Sr. 04:53
keep keep reinventing yourself.
Dina Simon 04:55
I love that, but I love the coaching, the live coaching, so that is where the magic happens. And, yeah, and the vulnerability. And, as you said, it doesn't have to be lonely at the top. And so as somebody who's going through it, you know, there's how many other people that are going through it. So to hear that and hear you work through those situations live and in a podcast. Brilliant, brilliant. So yes, we're, we're excited to have you on because you are a seasoned pro. We heard a statistic, something about podcasters that put their podcast out there. So many don't even get to 10 episodes. So being that we're in the 20s so far, and we just started four months ago, so we're feeling good about that. Yeah. So our podcast is about life, leadership and building legacies. So obviously you have a tremendous amount of conversation around leadership, because that's what you do. You're helping leaders grow anything that you'd want our listeners to know about from a leadership perspective, that you'd like to share. That's a big question. That's a big question. How
Adrian Koehler 05:53
many hours we have? Let me just start by saying I love the fact besides the beautiful alliteration, but that life and leadership and legacy, I think about these things a lot, and we talk about these things a lot, so I think they they are into intermix. It's interesting people's thoughts on legacy, I think, and you alluded to it before we started recording, that people think legacy is happens when you die. I don't prescribe that. I know you do. You don't either. It's really the deposits you make now they show up later, yep, but you can live intentionally so that, I mean, there's this, there's this poet named David White, W, h, y, t, e, if people haven't heard of him, check him out. He's brilliant. And he calls it. He says legacy is crafting your absence. Oh, and I think that's beautiful.
Dina Simon 06:37
I think that's beautiful. You
Adrian Koehler 06:39
know, you were family people here, and I know I've got a slew of kids, and I'm always thinking about that, even just yesterday, we're recording this on a Monday, on a Sunday afternoon, I sat down with my with my two littlest ones, a nine year old and a seven year old, and we talked about our family values, nice. And we sit down and they each make, each made a list of what, what kind of family do they want to be in? And so they made a list of it was, it was amazing. Actually, they made longer lists than I did. They all had, like 20 things, and then we took those and wrote them up on the board and def flip charges like I would with an executive team. And then we were honing them down. We were not down to our three to five yet, but it's really what was the one my my son said, because I use the word aliveness a lot, and he described it, he said, aliveness is being ready to take on the world I'm like now, nice. Take that. That's my nine year old boy. So anyway, crafting legacy is something I'm thinking about all the time, especially in parenting, especially in as I am. I'm 43 like even the decisions I make around my own family that I was born into, and the friendships I have now. And, you know, I think a lot of people, as they have kids and as they move on in their careers, they kind of feel stuck. And they only feel stuck as they quit wondering about who they are, who they need to, or want to, or desire to be investing in. So anyway, when I think legacy, I really think about relational legacy, yeah, and when it comes to your specific question around leadership, I mean, the core of leadership for me isn't what I'm doing with other people. The core of leadership for me is, how am I leading myself so that I can lead other people really well? So it's really around, I don't know, the concept of self mastery and self leadership. So eventually, this guy named John Maxwell wrote a book called 360 degree leadership, and he they broke it down, saying that something like 20% of leadership is leading down, and then, I don't know, 20 ish percent peer and 20 ish percent leading up, but the majority of it is how you lead yourself. Great metaphors for that. So that's a lot of my work with folks is they want to talk about how to, how to get their scorely Team straight, but it's really they got to get themselves straight right. And you can't really do surgery on yourself. You know, need somebody else to kind of help you see yourself. So anyway, that's, that's what I love doing. It if people aren't in that conversation with somebody, it's a worthy adventure, especially if there's something that's not working, especially if it's persistently not working, it means it's probably you that's like, not bad news, in my view, if I can pinpoint the source the breakdown is me. That's really good news, because I can control me
Dina Simon 09:13
exactly right. Much easier to control yourself and work on yourself than somebody else
Adrian Koehler 09:18
right on.
John Simon Sr. 09:18
Are you generally dealing with entrepreneurs almost
Adrian Koehler 09:22
solely. Now, you know, when I first started, I'd coach anybody with a paycheck and a pulse, but you know, over time, I've realized I love working with entrepreneurs. It's just more fun. And they get me. I get them. I'm usually pretty feisty. I'm trying to filter myself on this call, but I get pretty feisty, at least, I call it fierce advocacy. And most hard charging folks, over time have less and less people that'll look them in the eye and tell them the truth. Amen, yeah, you know. And so people, people that work with me, like it right in the right in the face they like, you know, I warn them all. I say I believe in you so much I'm not going to believe you. Most of the time, right, right? And they have to take a second Hold on What would you say? Yeah, I only think you're lying, not like you're lying on purpose, right? Just, you know, you're just trying to sell me what you sell your board members. And I'm, I'm asking for the real conversation. So let's get real man, you know that type of tone
John Simon Sr. 10:14
I often stated and in a few of the other podcasts, we have the admiration I have for entrepreneurs, because all through my career, as I like to say, I signed the back of a paycheck, never the front of a paycheck, the amount of ability to build a company where you hire other people and they depend on they depend on you as you depend on them to build the business and hire new people and grow the business. And I came from the business, we used to say, grow or die. And if you're not growing, if you're not growing 15% a year, where you can every five or six years, double your business, you're going to be in trouble. Yep. Yeah, yeah.
Adrian Koehler 11:01
And typically, why I like work with entrepreneurs, besides their kind of natural feistiness, which I dig, and they're all brilliant, otherwise they wouldn't be successful. They also usually have needs that I'm good at helping them with, you know, in the sense that, like I, if I do anything Well, I I do team really well, and I do conversation really well, and I do courage really well. Like, I'm, I've been thinking about this stuff for a long time, and keep using myself as my favorite lab rat. And, you know, so they, they get really frustrated because, you know, they, they can't not have the the very human thought, which is the natural human bias is that other people think the way I think we all think that, like, that's just, you know, and so therefore people are dumb in their minds, right? So if they're not doing what they would be doing, they're dumb. Instead of helping these really type a driven, brilliant people listen like they think that that's like a nice thing to do on the side. If I have to, no, it's actually the cheat code man, if you listen, especially if you you know, listening as noticing as well. You know, we have this simple formula that let's see, p plus E plus O over c. So these are the things we're listing for P's or patterns. Because we all exist in patterns. People are always naturally, because the way our brains work, we have these patterns. E is emphasis, and what people are trying to get you to, either consciously or unconsciously. They here's what they want you to notice, and that's emphasis that's always strategic. And then O is omissions, what people are trying you to make you not notice, like, what's being left out of a conversation, right? And all that oversee, which is context, like what the aim is, what the goal is. Listen for patterns and put language to it interesting. Listen for emphasis and put language to that. Notice that they want you to notice it and then wonder what the shadow is, what's what's not being emphasized. That's also probably the most powerful thing. So if you can, as a leader, illuminate, you know, not only illuminate the elephant in the room and put language to it with no judgment, but like, let's point it out. And then also we call it ride the elephant. If you can ride that elephant, there's a lot of there's a lot of gold in there, from a trust perspective and from a progress perspective, also from a monetary perspective, usually, because what you don't deal with, my business partner Dan takini typically says is, what you don't deal with today will dominate you later, absolutely.
Dina Simon 13:22
And, and you use the word courage, so it takes a lot of courage to lead that way as well. Yeah, love that formula. That's fantastic, fantastic. So I know we've talked about leadership, but let's, let's hear a little bit about you. So can you share with us your personal story? Who? Are you sure?
Adrian Koehler 13:41
Well, live out here in Los Angeles, California. Been here for 20 years. Got a couple young kids, couple step kids. I had moved out here from Illinois. I grew up in seven Illinois in the middle of nowhere, 8000 people, when everybody's home. One of two boys, son of two public school teachers. My dad grew up in the same town he taught in for 35 years, so kind of a small town, you know, my dad's kind of the George Bailey of my hometown, I say. And love that, but I couldn't wait to get to some diversity of thought and ethnically, of course. But even just like I liked the idea of the big city, I went on to play I played football in college at a little school called Millikan University, and I didn't know what I would, quote, unquote, what I wanted to be when I grew up. I I was pretty good in school. Sciences came naturally to me. I thought I'd go, maybe go be a doctor. Realize quickly I don't want to do this much school. So I actually got an interesting turn of events. I actually got a nursing degree in college, and I moved to Chicago right after undergrad and worked in a children's hospital, and I really loved that I didn't want to go be a nurse like, you know, wear scrubs all day for the next 30 years. That was not interesting to me at all. But the possibility of getting to go travel and getting to go serve people, I come from a big faith background as well, so that kind of that in my background of, I think I. You know, there's nothing more important to me than helping the world be put back together. Like the idea of redemption, the idea of turning something around we know. We know metaphysically, and we need to even know from the power of story that, like the hero's journey, is the backbone of human storytelling. So that idea of getting to step in, into a difficult situation and play your part in turning something and turning, you know, beauty to ashes or whatever metaphor you want to use. That was always captivating for me. So I got a nursing degree and started traveling a whole bunch and just being of service to people, which I love doing. And I was just the guy like I even when I was in Chicago, like homeless people were some of my best friends. I'm just like the guy I walked by. Let's, I'll sit down. Let's get a hot cup hot dogs and get to know you and having a real conversation. For whatever reason, definitely part of my faith background, definitely part of my family background. We just noticed people and cared about people. My parents are really awesome, nice, and I lived there for a little while in Chicago at that worked in the mostly pediatric intensive care. So crazy, very difficult.
John Simon Sr. 16:01
What part of Chicago? Adrian,
Adrian Koehler 16:03
I was in the city. I was at Children's Memorial Hospital right in the near north side in Lincoln Park. Okay, yeah, and I live just two blocks away, and I love that at the same time, I think every conversation kind of naturally evolves. And so my own faith conversation evolved into new places and and I caught wind of a guy living out here in LA named Erwin McManus. I listened to one of his speeches, his sermons, and I thought, This guy is brilliant and I'm flexible. I can go be a nurse anywhere. Why don't I go out and get to know this guy? And he had a church here in town called Mosaic. So fast forward, I moved out to LA to come be an intern at this church, once again, not knowing what I was going to do. But in my 20s, somebody told me, Hey, go experiment in the right direction. And you can't really go wrong. So go get around, make make money, of course, but go be around great people, the people that you want to be like. And so I did that. So I moved, packed up, so my mother should grant and moved 2000 miles west. Would goes an intern here, and I was, you know, doing all the things I love doing, helping mobilize people into action to that. Give a crap about the world? Go make up. Go make it a better place. And they ended up hiring me, and I created a whole network of about 2000 volunteers. The church is around 3000 people. And I built I built. So part of what I realized in myself is I love building bridges, making connections, and then inspiring people to go do something. So they gave me a great opportunity to do that in mosaic. So I would, you know, build volunteer teams, and we'd go serve in the city, and I would just tell people, Hey, give me an hour your week. It'll be your favorite hour. Just give me an hour of your week. I'll give you an opportunity to go make a difference with somebody else. And I love that. And with all the anything that would go down globally just because of how I'm wired and my medical background as well, I build teams and go rapid response for emergencies, you know, like Katrina happened, or, you know, the earthquake in Haiti, or Pakistan's underwater. I took dozens of teams to Africa. So I was just that guy that would build a build a team and go do something great, and I loved it. And so I did that for a while, and then met a guy whose father was a billionaire, so he was a millionaire, and he that was just a mentor and a friend of his in his own faith journey, and he said, Hey, would you help me figure out what to do with my money? I said, Sure, that sounds like fun. And so because I was well networked and knew a bunch of great people, I took him around the world, and he ended up really loving the idea of helping people who have really blown it, which meant in LA, we did a lot of gang reduction type work, or working with nonprofits that were helping people that wanted to get out of the gang lifestyle, or eventually follow some Catholics into the prison system here in California, which is quite extensive, and met this group of lifers. So if these 30 guys that were all had all most of them were murderers or had killed someone when they were young, and now they're 40 or 50 years old and gonna serve a life sentence with most of them with the possibility of parole. But they didn't let many guys out for political reasons. But the prison system's pretty you know, it's a it's a criminal factory. It's not a place of of reconciliation. So, long story short, I met a guy who had been doing this work, leadership, transformation work in the corporate setting. He had his own company, and he'd also been doing his own nonprofit work in multiple different contexts, including gang reduction work. As soon as I met him, I thought, okay, you're hired. I got this group of lifers. You know, he knows what he knew what to do. His name is Dan takini. He's now my business partner. I just quoted him. So we went into prison, and we did an initial three day training with this, this group of lifers, and then train them how to be trainers. Now, about 10 years later, that program's still happening, which is rare, and whenever a new warden could they've had like, four new wardens. And when a new warden comes in, they kill all the programs and start fresh this one, because of the impact in these guys lives, they would still hold trainings every week, and the point of the training is to move someone from a victim mindset to responsible mindset. Responsible mindset, and that's the ballgame, if you can get them into being responsible, and not because of my neighborhood or the color of my skin or the fact they didn't have a dad, or all those stories that justify criminality and got them responsible like I chose this. Here's let me get let me buddy up to the horror of that of me choosing this i. They can be free, even if they're in prison. And most of those guys, I think, I think 100% I don't know for sure when they went up to the parole board the next time they were released, because of their their the shift, and they're being, their presence, really, in their way of being because their mind had changed and they were no longer trying to prove it. They were, like, owning it.
John Simon Sr. 20:18
We need to put Adrian in touch with Greg Jackson that we did a podcast on, and he works with the prison system. He's a friend of mine here in argow, very him and his son are very involved in it here in Texas, Oklahoma and a few other states, and that's great. They do pro they do programs that they've put together for prisoners. So when they do get out, they have something to lean on to help them even start their own business.
Adrian Koehler 20:44
That's great. That's great. Yeah, one of our early grantees, I guess that's what you'd say. It was a gal named Catherine Hoke. Used to be Catherine something else before she started prison entrepreneur program, which was in Texas. That's where it started. So but similar then to five Avengers now hustle 2.0 she's reinvented herself a few times. Anyway, I'd love to anybody in your world.
Dina Simon 21:06
I'd love, I'd love to make the connection. Yeah, so
Adrian Koehler 21:08
did that for a while, and then through that, I'd gone through all these leadership trainings, which I'm a sucker for. I love it all as your learner,
Dina Simon 21:15
you let your learner. Yeah, I'm a learner, and
Adrian Koehler 21:17
I'm troubled, you know, I need help, you know? So I want to feel alive. I want to be the most, you know, it's like, that's why I can connect all these entrepreneurs. They're never quite done. I'm never quite done. So anyway, gone through all these trainings, including a coaching program, and had never thought I'd be a coach, but then I left the foundation, I thought, What am I going to do now? I could go back into kind of ministry stuff, but most of those churches. Wouldn't like me because I'm a rabble rouser. My grandfather would say, or I could go do philanthropic stuff, usually much more too administrative for a guy like me, I like, and I like hands on getting stuff done. I don't like manage. I'm not. I'm not the guy that's wired to manage from spreadsheets and that kind of thing, or just, you know, PowerPoint presentations. I want to get connected to the stories making it on the ground. And so anyway, I threw my hat in the ring as a coach, and, you know, got 20 clients in two weeks in rock and roll, and that's been a long time ago now. So
Dina Simon 22:08
that's awesome.
Adrian Koehler 22:09
I love it.
Dina Simon 22:10
I love it. Yes, there was so much there, but one of the key things that I pulled out, I loved experiment in the right direction, and you can't go wrong, yeah, like, that was one of the things when you were young, and you're, like, moving from Illinois to California, as long as you felt that you were headed in the right direction, and took that chance and that risk, and look at what happened. Yeah,
Adrian Koehler 22:30
I, you know, I needed that idea. Yeah, some people, they, like, wake up in the world, they know they're going to be a banker and they can just go pursue that. I wasn't that way. I knew what I was good at, and I knew what I liked, but there wasn't, like a spot, you know, it wasn't like it was a puzzle and just looking for one little piece, and there's my piece, and I'll go lock in for 10 years or 15 years or 20 years, or however, I just wasn't ever wired that way. So when someone, it was actually Irwin, that told me that the guy ended up working for I thought, oh, that's relieving. Okay, so I don't have to have it all figured out. Aha, great. Okay, so get your character straight. Get your, you know, get your vision lined out, you know, use your, use your God given abilities, and go all in, and then just trust the process and keep your eyes open. Don't be a fool. Keep your eyes open. Pay attention. And then, you know, that's why, like, I've never applied for a job. They've always just kind of happened, you know. But, yeah, you know, I in a world full of Allison, let me sound cynical for a second, in a world full of zombies, when you notice somebody that's alive, you're like, Aha, this guy that we got a live one here, you know? And I'm always paying attention to that. I always tried to be that guy as well. It's like there's so much cynicism naturally about the way the world was, or it should be, or the good old days, I'm never that way. It's like, no, no, we make it we make it straight, you know. And you can overcome, really, any situation if you're committed to make it a better, right? Yeah, yeah, there is a, there's a natural flow in culture towards protectivism and cynicism and self righteousness. That's just human beings. We're always naturally doing that. But if you stand against that flow and decide to be here right now, dealing with life right here, throw yourself all in, daring to be optimistic, daring to be hopeful, daring to sacrifice, you'll stand out. And so anyway, enough people have had told me things like that that I bought it, and it's worked out so far. That's awesome.
John Simon Sr. 24:22
Love it. Wow, that there's, there's a lot there, you know, you talk about, no, that's, that's great. I mean, it, you taught it, and in your line, you got to be a good listener, because people will tell you everything if you listen. What happens too many times, people just want to talk and you don't want to hear, hear the story. And once you hear the story, that's when really you know you can start going to things to help them. Oh, for sure, for sure. I like your tagline, yes. You want to grow go where you don't want to go. Yeah.
Dina Simon 24:56
And in that, even what you talked about in the work that you. Done with gangs and things of that nature, and people in prison, but that whole victim mentality, I mean, you have that. We have everybody, not everybody, but there's so many of my coaching clients, right? It's like, okay, you have to put that victim mentality aside. And what can you control? And you talked about that too. The one thing that we can control is ourselves. So how are we growing? How are we learning? Yeah, yeah,
Adrian Koehler 25:22
you probably experienced this. I mean, I do too. I mean, I've been doing this a long time, but I'm prone to that. You know, it's just and we're wired. I just think, let me get my thoughts straight here. There's five at the same time. I mean, we, we naturally want to blame something else or someone else for what's happening, and that's just, I think, wired into us. We've seen that from the earliest narratives about human beings, even if you just take the Jewish scripture around there's two people in the Garden of Eden, and things go sideways, and whose fault is it? They're all pointing fingers, right? So as soon as we started talking to ourselves as human beings about what we are like and what we think, we start blaming things. So anyway, we're all like, I think, prone to that. I know I am, even when, like my kids are crazy, I want to blame them for it. Instead of saying, okay, man, why don't you relax? Why don't you be the grown up in the room. Don't be a toddler. Why don't you be the grown up in the room. So anyway, we, we're all just wired that way and prone to that. And either, I mean, we would call it in our work, we call it hugging the cactus, like, if we can see the sides of us that we'd rather not see, and then not only see it, but own it, like put our arms around it, it'll hurt a little bit. I cactus, it'll hurt a little bit. But if I can, you know, if I can realize at any moment in time, I can act like the victim, and I can own that, and then there's a lot to learn from it. It's usually where that happens, is where I'm most vulnerable. And if I lean into it, instead of trying to blame my way out of it, there's so much more that I can get out of it. But also I could be an example. I mean, my kids know, if you asked, if you ask my kids, What's dad allergic to? They won't say pine nuts or whatever. They'll say whining. I love it about 500 times. Oh, hold on. Are you whining? Okay, when you're ready to have a real conversation, I'd love to help you, if you'd like some help, but if you just want to complain, can you do that in your room? Okay, thank you. My gosh, I love that. I'm kind of a pain in the butt type of dad, but that's
Dina Simon 27:17
awesome. But you're not just think of the teachings, and again, your legacy and and what your kids are experiencing. Think it's fantastic, fantastic. Yeah, and love that you're building your family values. And what, what is that? And narrowing that down, I mean, just what a great life experience for them.
John Simon Sr. 27:34
You talked about the good old days. And, yeah, say our chairman, when I work reciprocas, you'd say, you know, the good old days weren't always that good, and that, and his philosophy was, he always called the three eyes, and you have to have integrity, intelligence and intensity in running your business.
Adrian Koehler 27:53
I love that. I love that.
John Simon Sr. 27:55
Yeah, we live. We live the three eyes every day. Yeah,
Adrian Koehler 27:59
that's cool. I like that intensity part. I was talking with a client today, and he's, he's a big he's a big player in a big family business out of New York City, and he's taken over one of those businesses. He's gonna make up. He's making a big move for himself. You know, he's kind of in that situation where he wouldn't ever have to do anything, but he's stepping up after he and I started working together, just because he's, you know, he's bored and kind of full of despair like you are, if you don't have something in front of you that you're committed to, whatever that is, could just be a copy, but something you're committed to. And he said he decided to throw himself into something which is great and it's going to turn around. They're getting a big anyway. He's doing a whole bunch of work, and he was getting ready to sit down with a guy on his team that's just not working out. And he was hoping that, you know, the guy was gonna, like, see it for himself and, like, kind of excuse himself, and that I'm like, Well, why don't he? And what he said, he said to me, he said, I'm not gonna lie to him. I said, I know, I know you're not gonna lie to him, but that's not the high bar. You know, the high bar is to go tell him the truth with love, to go tell him the truth. That's the that, when you said intensity, that that came back to mind, because it takes guts back to courage. It takes guts to just go, be honest, right? Yeah, takes a lot of faith to go, be honest. Takes a lot of respect to be honest. You got to respect yourself. There's like, there's a lot in there. Of course, that's a five hour conversation, yep, but if you decide to be intense about it, which I dig that, then you know, life gets a lot simpler. It doesn't have to be so complicated,
Dina Simon 29:22
right? Right? And everything that you just said from a trust perspective, all of that, but also just that is healthy, right? Like, just to be able to be honest and be truthful and say, like, no, do you know how you're showing up? Or whatever the situation is, because that person may not actually know that that's how they're showing up. And that's those life changing moments like, whoa. I didn't realize that that's, you know, how people, how people were engaging with me. And that's actually not how I want to be showing up. I mean, just Yeah, so that's where courage and trust and all of that foundation comes in love that
John Simon Sr. 29:55
I refer to it as tough love to the people that work, that works for me. When they come in and they'd say, Well, I hope we do this. Let me tell you, Hope's not a strategy, pal. We got to get this figured out. Is
Dina Simon 30:07
that where I learned hope is not a strategy, because I use that all the time. Is that where I learned that? Okay, that's great. Love that. Well, Adrian, we also have a lot of Chicago roots. So John, they lived in the Chicago area. I have a lot of family there. So love that you're originally from Illinois,
Adrian Koehler 30:23
yes, yeah. I love Chicago. Love Chicago. I, I grew up in Southern Illinois, so four hours south of Chicago. So our big city we go to his kids, was St Louis most the time. As soon as I get as soon as I get to Chicago, I fell in love with it.
John Simon Sr. 30:36
Yeah, oh yeah. We, we lived there for 14 years, and it was great. So the big question, deep dish or thin crust? Oh,
Adrian Koehler 30:44
I always went deep dish. I don't know if that's called, but Lou
John Simon Sr. 30:48
malbodies, yes, Lulus is always my favorite to go and cortelo get the beef sandwich, and you have to have the dip with the hot pet with the peppers on it. So
Adrian Koehler 31:00
yes, sir, yeah. When I first did my did a summer internship in Chicago. When I was in college, I lived on the west side, lived in North Lawndale. So there was a there was a guy named Wayne Gordon. Haven't spoken his name for a long time. A guy named Wayne Gordon, who was a guy that he was who went to Wheaton, came into Chicago, only white dude in a whole like three mile radius. Started a church there called Lawndale, North Lawndale community church, and he recruited, he talked to Lou malnotti and said, Hey, would you put a pizzeria in my neighborhood? Because nobody, nobody touches my neighborhood, but would you come do it? I'll promise you. Well, you'll be successful. So when I first moved to Chicago and did that summer internship and taught a kid's program and all the stuff you do there, was Lou malno. He's like, two doors down. So I became a believer
Dina Simon 31:43
really quickly. Love that. Nice, nice. Yeah,
John Simon Sr. 31:46
we still get it delivered.
Dina Simon 31:48
We do one 800 lose to go. They'll ship to California. We may have to send you some to thank you for being on the podcast.
Adrian Koehler 31:54
I promise you I'll enjoy it. Okay, all right. My final thought is, people that are listening, first off, Be gracious to yourself. We're all struggling. You know, life is tough, that's true. Things are complex, that's just true. So if you're really hard on yourself and most hard charging leaders, your own worst enemy is in between your ears. So if you haven't heard this today, if you're listening, just be kind to yourself. Number one and number two is get some help so you can raise the bar, because otherwise you're going to die with a bunch of regrets, and life is too short for that, and we don't know how long we've got, we might as well make it count. So if it's us at take new ground or somebody else, reach out for help, that's the most heroic thing a leader can do, is ask for help.
Dina Simon 32:33
I agree. Love that exactly. Amen. Well, Adrian, it's been awesome to have you on thank you so much.
Adrian Koehler 32:39
Thanks so much for having me. This is such an honor. Thank you. Ad
Dina Simon 32:42
Kohler, founder of take new ground and also podcast host of the naked leader podcast. We will make sure we share all of the notes in the show notes, so you know how to get in touch with Adrian, but we've loved this conversation. What an amazing personal story, leadership story, Legacy story, and just so great to have you as part of the Simon Says inspire network. And thank you for joining us for the podcast. As always, I thank my father in law, John Simon, for being my co host, and until we talk again, you.
John, welcome to Simon Says, inspire a podcast about life, leadership and building legacies. I'm John Simon, SR
Dina Simon 00:14
and I'm Dina Simon.
John Simon Sr. 00:16
Our guest today is Adrian Kohler. Adrienne is a leadership engagement expert and senior partner at the executive coaching firm hate newground. He coaches executives and entrepreneurs in the art and science of leadership for themselves their teams and clients to create new, unprecedented results and experience fulfillment in their work. Adrian, welcome to our podcast.
Adrian Koehler 00:41
So great to be here. Thanks for having me. Well,
John Simon Sr. 00:44
this is one of the few podcasts that we have somewhat on that we've never met before, so that's a new experience for us, so that's going to be a lot of fun, and I'm sure our listeners will get a thrill out of hearing all about you and the businesses that you're in, and I do have to ask about your podcast, the naked leadership podcast. How did that come about?
Adrian Koehler 01:08
Well, I forget how we got to the name of it, but I you know, we've been at it for, I don't know, four or five years or something now. I mean, it came out of a handful of reasons. One is that we kind of the big myth, I say it's a myth is this whole very, very easily understood and very easily accepted view that it's lonely at the top. Now, I know what people mean by that, sure, and then they usually people say it, I think, to justify the world that they've created for themselves, they end up complaining about it. So our stand really, is that it doesn't have to be that lonely. I mean, usually it's only lonely because I'm not asking for help, I'm not reaching out, I'm not, you know, really generating a world around me that I feel seen, connected with, have a lot of access to other people that are going through the same thing. So part of the purpose of the podcast has been to let people know that what they're going through isn't unique. It's it's very well known. It's but, I mean, when you decide to step up as a leader, you are standing out, and you have to leave the crowd. And so there is some kind of loneliness in that. But it doesn't have to be that lonely, especially if you can connect with other people that are going through the same thing. So part of it came out of that, that to fight the despair that happens. I think with a lot of leaders. I know I've been through that at times in different seasons of my life. I think every leader goes through that. It's probably just necessary you walk the desert before you hit the Promised Land, metaphorically speaking. So that's part of the that's necessary. But also, you know, we were always having these very vital conversations with our clientele, and we thought, you know, if we could save somebody some time, save them some pain, then we'd like to do that. So it became this conversation that we could just share what we're learning, what our clients are learning, what we're learning with our clients, and so that maybe you can give a roadmap to people as they're walking through it. And not so much of what's in all the books today and on everywhere over the internet is like, here's the solution, you know, here's the formula, do these five things. There's a lot of people that do that really well. We're not that type of people. We want to talk about what the experience is like and like, kind of what's going on behind the scenes, like in the kind of belief world, which is where most of our life happens for us anyway, what we think about things, how we feel about things, what our experience is, both the experience that probably naturally comes to us, or the one that we're curating, and we don't know we're curating it. So we try to have those conversations so naked leadership, in the sense that if you do leadership, well, it's going to be vulnerable if you, you know, if you stick yourself out there and become have this growth mindset or whatever. So we want to just, you know, be the space in which people can listen, they can say, Ah, yes, that's what I'm going through. And then how do we get through it? Well,
John Simon Sr. 03:45
I was impressed when I started looking. And there were 238, episodes out there. So this is our 23rd so we're about to 10% line for where, sure, where you're at. We're just learning and putting it all together, but you have a lot of experience behind you in doing it.
Adrian Koehler 04:02
We love it. You know, we just started shifting it too. I mean, we didn't follow the interviewing people template. We've done that some, but to be honest, those are at least listened to episodes, sure. So we've done more. What are the themes that we know people are going through that we could use more language around number one. And then some clients started saying, hey, you need to post on the podcast coaching, like live coaching, because that's kind of they kept saying, You guys do the locker room talk before and after the game, but we don't get to see the game. So we've just started now doing some live coaching. And it's, it's a little bit, you know, interesting to meet somebody out of nowhere and then have a live coaching session that gets posted online. So we're learning how to do that really well, but we've got several of those up, and are going to keep doing those more and more. So, you know, we're always experimenting, and the aim is just to generate resource for people
Dina Simon 04:52
absolutely sure,
John Simon Sr. 04:53
keep keep reinventing yourself.
Dina Simon 04:55
I love that, but I love the coaching, the live coaching, so that is where the magic happens. And, yeah, and the vulnerability. And, as you said, it doesn't have to be lonely at the top. And so as somebody who's going through it, you know, there's how many other people that are going through it. So to hear that and hear you work through those situations live and in a podcast. Brilliant, brilliant. So yes, we're, we're excited to have you on because you are a seasoned pro. We heard a statistic, something about podcasters that put their podcast out there. So many don't even get to 10 episodes. So being that we're in the 20s so far, and we just started four months ago, so we're feeling good about that. Yeah. So our podcast is about life, leadership and building legacies. So obviously you have a tremendous amount of conversation around leadership, because that's what you do. You're helping leaders grow anything that you'd want our listeners to know about from a leadership perspective, that you'd like to share. That's a big question. That's a big question. How
Adrian Koehler 05:53
many hours we have? Let me just start by saying I love the fact besides the beautiful alliteration, but that life and leadership and legacy, I think about these things a lot, and we talk about these things a lot, so I think they they are into intermix. It's interesting people's thoughts on legacy, I think, and you alluded to it before we started recording, that people think legacy is happens when you die. I don't prescribe that. I know you do. You don't either. It's really the deposits you make now they show up later, yep, but you can live intentionally so that, I mean, there's this, there's this poet named David White, W, h, y, t, e, if people haven't heard of him, check him out. He's brilliant. And he calls it. He says legacy is crafting your absence. Oh, and I think that's beautiful.
Dina Simon 06:37
I think that's beautiful. You
Adrian Koehler 06:39
know, you were family people here, and I know I've got a slew of kids, and I'm always thinking about that, even just yesterday, we're recording this on a Monday, on a Sunday afternoon, I sat down with my with my two littlest ones, a nine year old and a seven year old, and we talked about our family values, nice. And we sit down and they each make, each made a list of what, what kind of family do they want to be in? And so they made a list of it was, it was amazing. Actually, they made longer lists than I did. They all had, like 20 things, and then we took those and wrote them up on the board and def flip charges like I would with an executive team. And then we were honing them down. We were not down to our three to five yet, but it's really what was the one my my son said, because I use the word aliveness a lot, and he described it, he said, aliveness is being ready to take on the world I'm like now, nice. Take that. That's my nine year old boy. So anyway, crafting legacy is something I'm thinking about all the time, especially in parenting, especially in as I am. I'm 43 like even the decisions I make around my own family that I was born into, and the friendships I have now. And, you know, I think a lot of people, as they have kids and as they move on in their careers, they kind of feel stuck. And they only feel stuck as they quit wondering about who they are, who they need to, or want to, or desire to be investing in. So anyway, when I think legacy, I really think about relational legacy, yeah, and when it comes to your specific question around leadership, I mean, the core of leadership for me isn't what I'm doing with other people. The core of leadership for me is, how am I leading myself so that I can lead other people really well? So it's really around, I don't know, the concept of self mastery and self leadership. So eventually, this guy named John Maxwell wrote a book called 360 degree leadership, and he they broke it down, saying that something like 20% of leadership is leading down, and then, I don't know, 20 ish percent peer and 20 ish percent leading up, but the majority of it is how you lead yourself. Great metaphors for that. So that's a lot of my work with folks is they want to talk about how to, how to get their scorely Team straight, but it's really they got to get themselves straight right. And you can't really do surgery on yourself. You know, need somebody else to kind of help you see yourself. So anyway, that's, that's what I love doing. It if people aren't in that conversation with somebody, it's a worthy adventure, especially if there's something that's not working, especially if it's persistently not working, it means it's probably you that's like, not bad news, in my view, if I can pinpoint the source the breakdown is me. That's really good news, because I can control me
Dina Simon 09:13
exactly right. Much easier to control yourself and work on yourself than somebody else
Adrian Koehler 09:18
right on.
John Simon Sr. 09:18
Are you generally dealing with entrepreneurs almost
Adrian Koehler 09:22
solely. Now, you know, when I first started, I'd coach anybody with a paycheck and a pulse, but you know, over time, I've realized I love working with entrepreneurs. It's just more fun. And they get me. I get them. I'm usually pretty feisty. I'm trying to filter myself on this call, but I get pretty feisty, at least, I call it fierce advocacy. And most hard charging folks, over time have less and less people that'll look them in the eye and tell them the truth. Amen, yeah, you know. And so people, people that work with me, like it right in the right in the face they like, you know, I warn them all. I say I believe in you so much I'm not going to believe you. Most of the time, right, right? And they have to take a second Hold on What would you say? Yeah, I only think you're lying, not like you're lying on purpose, right? Just, you know, you're just trying to sell me what you sell your board members. And I'm, I'm asking for the real conversation. So let's get real man, you know that type of tone
John Simon Sr. 10:14
I often stated and in a few of the other podcasts, we have the admiration I have for entrepreneurs, because all through my career, as I like to say, I signed the back of a paycheck, never the front of a paycheck, the amount of ability to build a company where you hire other people and they depend on they depend on you as you depend on them to build the business and hire new people and grow the business. And I came from the business, we used to say, grow or die. And if you're not growing, if you're not growing 15% a year, where you can every five or six years, double your business, you're going to be in trouble. Yep. Yeah, yeah.
Adrian Koehler 11:01
And typically, why I like work with entrepreneurs, besides their kind of natural feistiness, which I dig, and they're all brilliant, otherwise they wouldn't be successful. They also usually have needs that I'm good at helping them with, you know, in the sense that, like I, if I do anything Well, I I do team really well, and I do conversation really well, and I do courage really well. Like, I'm, I've been thinking about this stuff for a long time, and keep using myself as my favorite lab rat. And, you know, so they, they get really frustrated because, you know, they, they can't not have the the very human thought, which is the natural human bias is that other people think the way I think we all think that, like, that's just, you know, and so therefore people are dumb in their minds, right? So if they're not doing what they would be doing, they're dumb. Instead of helping these really type a driven, brilliant people listen like they think that that's like a nice thing to do on the side. If I have to, no, it's actually the cheat code man, if you listen, especially if you you know, listening as noticing as well. You know, we have this simple formula that let's see, p plus E plus O over c. So these are the things we're listing for P's or patterns. Because we all exist in patterns. People are always naturally, because the way our brains work, we have these patterns. E is emphasis, and what people are trying to get you to, either consciously or unconsciously. They here's what they want you to notice, and that's emphasis that's always strategic. And then O is omissions, what people are trying you to make you not notice, like, what's being left out of a conversation, right? And all that oversee, which is context, like what the aim is, what the goal is. Listen for patterns and put language to it interesting. Listen for emphasis and put language to that. Notice that they want you to notice it and then wonder what the shadow is, what's what's not being emphasized. That's also probably the most powerful thing. So if you can, as a leader, illuminate, you know, not only illuminate the elephant in the room and put language to it with no judgment, but like, let's point it out. And then also we call it ride the elephant. If you can ride that elephant, there's a lot of there's a lot of gold in there, from a trust perspective and from a progress perspective, also from a monetary perspective, usually, because what you don't deal with, my business partner Dan takini typically says is, what you don't deal with today will dominate you later, absolutely.
Dina Simon 13:22
And, and you use the word courage, so it takes a lot of courage to lead that way as well. Yeah, love that formula. That's fantastic, fantastic. So I know we've talked about leadership, but let's, let's hear a little bit about you. So can you share with us your personal story? Who? Are you sure?
Adrian Koehler 13:41
Well, live out here in Los Angeles, California. Been here for 20 years. Got a couple young kids, couple step kids. I had moved out here from Illinois. I grew up in seven Illinois in the middle of nowhere, 8000 people, when everybody's home. One of two boys, son of two public school teachers. My dad grew up in the same town he taught in for 35 years, so kind of a small town, you know, my dad's kind of the George Bailey of my hometown, I say. And love that, but I couldn't wait to get to some diversity of thought and ethnically, of course. But even just like I liked the idea of the big city, I went on to play I played football in college at a little school called Millikan University, and I didn't know what I would, quote, unquote, what I wanted to be when I grew up. I I was pretty good in school. Sciences came naturally to me. I thought I'd go, maybe go be a doctor. Realize quickly I don't want to do this much school. So I actually got an interesting turn of events. I actually got a nursing degree in college, and I moved to Chicago right after undergrad and worked in a children's hospital, and I really loved that I didn't want to go be a nurse like, you know, wear scrubs all day for the next 30 years. That was not interesting to me at all. But the possibility of getting to go travel and getting to go serve people, I come from a big faith background as well, so that kind of that in my background of, I think I. You know, there's nothing more important to me than helping the world be put back together. Like the idea of redemption, the idea of turning something around we know. We know metaphysically, and we need to even know from the power of story that, like the hero's journey, is the backbone of human storytelling. So that idea of getting to step in, into a difficult situation and play your part in turning something and turning, you know, beauty to ashes or whatever metaphor you want to use. That was always captivating for me. So I got a nursing degree and started traveling a whole bunch and just being of service to people, which I love doing. And I was just the guy like I even when I was in Chicago, like homeless people were some of my best friends. I'm just like the guy I walked by. Let's, I'll sit down. Let's get a hot cup hot dogs and get to know you and having a real conversation. For whatever reason, definitely part of my faith background, definitely part of my family background. We just noticed people and cared about people. My parents are really awesome, nice, and I lived there for a little while in Chicago at that worked in the mostly pediatric intensive care. So crazy, very difficult.
John Simon Sr. 16:01
What part of Chicago? Adrian,
Adrian Koehler 16:03
I was in the city. I was at Children's Memorial Hospital right in the near north side in Lincoln Park. Okay, yeah, and I live just two blocks away, and I love that at the same time, I think every conversation kind of naturally evolves. And so my own faith conversation evolved into new places and and I caught wind of a guy living out here in LA named Erwin McManus. I listened to one of his speeches, his sermons, and I thought, This guy is brilliant and I'm flexible. I can go be a nurse anywhere. Why don't I go out and get to know this guy? And he had a church here in town called Mosaic. So fast forward, I moved out to LA to come be an intern at this church, once again, not knowing what I was going to do. But in my 20s, somebody told me, Hey, go experiment in the right direction. And you can't really go wrong. So go get around, make make money, of course, but go be around great people, the people that you want to be like. And so I did that. So I moved, packed up, so my mother should grant and moved 2000 miles west. Would goes an intern here, and I was, you know, doing all the things I love doing, helping mobilize people into action to that. Give a crap about the world? Go make up. Go make it a better place. And they ended up hiring me, and I created a whole network of about 2000 volunteers. The church is around 3000 people. And I built I built. So part of what I realized in myself is I love building bridges, making connections, and then inspiring people to go do something. So they gave me a great opportunity to do that in mosaic. So I would, you know, build volunteer teams, and we'd go serve in the city, and I would just tell people, Hey, give me an hour your week. It'll be your favorite hour. Just give me an hour of your week. I'll give you an opportunity to go make a difference with somebody else. And I love that. And with all the anything that would go down globally just because of how I'm wired and my medical background as well, I build teams and go rapid response for emergencies, you know, like Katrina happened, or, you know, the earthquake in Haiti, or Pakistan's underwater. I took dozens of teams to Africa. So I was just that guy that would build a build a team and go do something great, and I loved it. And so I did that for a while, and then met a guy whose father was a billionaire, so he was a millionaire, and he that was just a mentor and a friend of his in his own faith journey, and he said, Hey, would you help me figure out what to do with my money? I said, Sure, that sounds like fun. And so because I was well networked and knew a bunch of great people, I took him around the world, and he ended up really loving the idea of helping people who have really blown it, which meant in LA, we did a lot of gang reduction type work, or working with nonprofits that were helping people that wanted to get out of the gang lifestyle, or eventually follow some Catholics into the prison system here in California, which is quite extensive, and met this group of lifers. So if these 30 guys that were all had all most of them were murderers or had killed someone when they were young, and now they're 40 or 50 years old and gonna serve a life sentence with most of them with the possibility of parole. But they didn't let many guys out for political reasons. But the prison system's pretty you know, it's a it's a criminal factory. It's not a place of of reconciliation. So, long story short, I met a guy who had been doing this work, leadership, transformation work in the corporate setting. He had his own company, and he'd also been doing his own nonprofit work in multiple different contexts, including gang reduction work. As soon as I met him, I thought, okay, you're hired. I got this group of lifers. You know, he knows what he knew what to do. His name is Dan takini. He's now my business partner. I just quoted him. So we went into prison, and we did an initial three day training with this, this group of lifers, and then train them how to be trainers. Now, about 10 years later, that program's still happening, which is rare, and whenever a new warden could they've had like, four new wardens. And when a new warden comes in, they kill all the programs and start fresh this one, because of the impact in these guys lives, they would still hold trainings every week, and the point of the training is to move someone from a victim mindset to responsible mindset. Responsible mindset, and that's the ballgame, if you can get them into being responsible, and not because of my neighborhood or the color of my skin or the fact they didn't have a dad, or all those stories that justify criminality and got them responsible like I chose this. Here's let me get let me buddy up to the horror of that of me choosing this i. They can be free, even if they're in prison. And most of those guys, I think, I think 100% I don't know for sure when they went up to the parole board the next time they were released, because of their their the shift, and they're being, their presence, really, in their way of being because their mind had changed and they were no longer trying to prove it. They were, like, owning it.
John Simon Sr. 20:18
We need to put Adrian in touch with Greg Jackson that we did a podcast on, and he works with the prison system. He's a friend of mine here in argow, very him and his son are very involved in it here in Texas, Oklahoma and a few other states, and that's great. They do pro they do programs that they've put together for prisoners. So when they do get out, they have something to lean on to help them even start their own business.
Adrian Koehler 20:44
That's great. That's great. Yeah, one of our early grantees, I guess that's what you'd say. It was a gal named Catherine Hoke. Used to be Catherine something else before she started prison entrepreneur program, which was in Texas. That's where it started. So but similar then to five Avengers now hustle 2.0 she's reinvented herself a few times. Anyway, I'd love to anybody in your world.
Dina Simon 21:06
I'd love, I'd love to make the connection. Yeah, so
Adrian Koehler 21:08
did that for a while, and then through that, I'd gone through all these leadership trainings, which I'm a sucker for. I love it all as your learner,
Dina Simon 21:15
you let your learner. Yeah, I'm a learner, and
Adrian Koehler 21:17
I'm troubled, you know, I need help, you know? So I want to feel alive. I want to be the most, you know, it's like, that's why I can connect all these entrepreneurs. They're never quite done. I'm never quite done. So anyway, gone through all these trainings, including a coaching program, and had never thought I'd be a coach, but then I left the foundation, I thought, What am I going to do now? I could go back into kind of ministry stuff, but most of those churches. Wouldn't like me because I'm a rabble rouser. My grandfather would say, or I could go do philanthropic stuff, usually much more too administrative for a guy like me, I like, and I like hands on getting stuff done. I don't like manage. I'm not. I'm not the guy that's wired to manage from spreadsheets and that kind of thing, or just, you know, PowerPoint presentations. I want to get connected to the stories making it on the ground. And so anyway, I threw my hat in the ring as a coach, and, you know, got 20 clients in two weeks in rock and roll, and that's been a long time ago now. So
Dina Simon 22:08
that's awesome.
Adrian Koehler 22:09
I love it.
Dina Simon 22:10
I love it. Yes, there was so much there, but one of the key things that I pulled out, I loved experiment in the right direction, and you can't go wrong, yeah, like, that was one of the things when you were young, and you're, like, moving from Illinois to California, as long as you felt that you were headed in the right direction, and took that chance and that risk, and look at what happened. Yeah,
Adrian Koehler 22:30
I, you know, I needed that idea. Yeah, some people, they, like, wake up in the world, they know they're going to be a banker and they can just go pursue that. I wasn't that way. I knew what I was good at, and I knew what I liked, but there wasn't, like a spot, you know, it wasn't like it was a puzzle and just looking for one little piece, and there's my piece, and I'll go lock in for 10 years or 15 years or 20 years, or however, I just wasn't ever wired that way. So when someone, it was actually Irwin, that told me that the guy ended up working for I thought, oh, that's relieving. Okay, so I don't have to have it all figured out. Aha, great. Okay, so get your character straight. Get your, you know, get your vision lined out, you know, use your, use your God given abilities, and go all in, and then just trust the process and keep your eyes open. Don't be a fool. Keep your eyes open. Pay attention. And then, you know, that's why, like, I've never applied for a job. They've always just kind of happened, you know. But, yeah, you know, I in a world full of Allison, let me sound cynical for a second, in a world full of zombies, when you notice somebody that's alive, you're like, Aha, this guy that we got a live one here, you know? And I'm always paying attention to that. I always tried to be that guy as well. It's like there's so much cynicism naturally about the way the world was, or it should be, or the good old days, I'm never that way. It's like, no, no, we make it we make it straight, you know. And you can overcome, really, any situation if you're committed to make it a better, right? Yeah, yeah, there is a, there's a natural flow in culture towards protectivism and cynicism and self righteousness. That's just human beings. We're always naturally doing that. But if you stand against that flow and decide to be here right now, dealing with life right here, throw yourself all in, daring to be optimistic, daring to be hopeful, daring to sacrifice, you'll stand out. And so anyway, enough people have had told me things like that that I bought it, and it's worked out so far. That's awesome.
John Simon Sr. 24:22
Love it. Wow, that there's, there's a lot there, you know, you talk about, no, that's, that's great. I mean, it, you taught it, and in your line, you got to be a good listener, because people will tell you everything if you listen. What happens too many times, people just want to talk and you don't want to hear, hear the story. And once you hear the story, that's when really you know you can start going to things to help them. Oh, for sure, for sure. I like your tagline, yes. You want to grow go where you don't want to go. Yeah.
Dina Simon 24:56
And in that, even what you talked about in the work that you. Done with gangs and things of that nature, and people in prison, but that whole victim mentality, I mean, you have that. We have everybody, not everybody, but there's so many of my coaching clients, right? It's like, okay, you have to put that victim mentality aside. And what can you control? And you talked about that too. The one thing that we can control is ourselves. So how are we growing? How are we learning? Yeah, yeah,
Adrian Koehler 25:22
you probably experienced this. I mean, I do too. I mean, I've been doing this a long time, but I'm prone to that. You know, it's just and we're wired. I just think, let me get my thoughts straight here. There's five at the same time. I mean, we, we naturally want to blame something else or someone else for what's happening, and that's just, I think, wired into us. We've seen that from the earliest narratives about human beings, even if you just take the Jewish scripture around there's two people in the Garden of Eden, and things go sideways, and whose fault is it? They're all pointing fingers, right? So as soon as we started talking to ourselves as human beings about what we are like and what we think, we start blaming things. So anyway, we're all like, I think, prone to that. I know I am, even when, like my kids are crazy, I want to blame them for it. Instead of saying, okay, man, why don't you relax? Why don't you be the grown up in the room. Don't be a toddler. Why don't you be the grown up in the room. So anyway, we, we're all just wired that way and prone to that. And either, I mean, we would call it in our work, we call it hugging the cactus, like, if we can see the sides of us that we'd rather not see, and then not only see it, but own it, like put our arms around it, it'll hurt a little bit. I cactus, it'll hurt a little bit. But if I can, you know, if I can realize at any moment in time, I can act like the victim, and I can own that, and then there's a lot to learn from it. It's usually where that happens, is where I'm most vulnerable. And if I lean into it, instead of trying to blame my way out of it, there's so much more that I can get out of it. But also I could be an example. I mean, my kids know, if you asked, if you ask my kids, What's dad allergic to? They won't say pine nuts or whatever. They'll say whining. I love it about 500 times. Oh, hold on. Are you whining? Okay, when you're ready to have a real conversation, I'd love to help you, if you'd like some help, but if you just want to complain, can you do that in your room? Okay, thank you. My gosh, I love that. I'm kind of a pain in the butt type of dad, but that's
Dina Simon 27:17
awesome. But you're not just think of the teachings, and again, your legacy and and what your kids are experiencing. Think it's fantastic, fantastic. Yeah, and love that you're building your family values. And what, what is that? And narrowing that down, I mean, just what a great life experience for them.
John Simon Sr. 27:34
You talked about the good old days. And, yeah, say our chairman, when I work reciprocas, you'd say, you know, the good old days weren't always that good, and that, and his philosophy was, he always called the three eyes, and you have to have integrity, intelligence and intensity in running your business.
Adrian Koehler 27:53
I love that. I love that.
John Simon Sr. 27:55
Yeah, we live. We live the three eyes every day. Yeah,
Adrian Koehler 27:59
that's cool. I like that intensity part. I was talking with a client today, and he's, he's a big he's a big player in a big family business out of New York City, and he's taken over one of those businesses. He's gonna make up. He's making a big move for himself. You know, he's kind of in that situation where he wouldn't ever have to do anything, but he's stepping up after he and I started working together, just because he's, you know, he's bored and kind of full of despair like you are, if you don't have something in front of you that you're committed to, whatever that is, could just be a copy, but something you're committed to. And he said he decided to throw himself into something which is great and it's going to turn around. They're getting a big anyway. He's doing a whole bunch of work, and he was getting ready to sit down with a guy on his team that's just not working out. And he was hoping that, you know, the guy was gonna, like, see it for himself and, like, kind of excuse himself, and that I'm like, Well, why don't he? And what he said, he said to me, he said, I'm not gonna lie to him. I said, I know, I know you're not gonna lie to him, but that's not the high bar. You know, the high bar is to go tell him the truth with love, to go tell him the truth. That's the that, when you said intensity, that that came back to mind, because it takes guts back to courage. It takes guts to just go, be honest, right? Yeah, takes a lot of faith to go, be honest. Takes a lot of respect to be honest. You got to respect yourself. There's like, there's a lot in there. Of course, that's a five hour conversation, yep, but if you decide to be intense about it, which I dig that, then you know, life gets a lot simpler. It doesn't have to be so complicated,
Dina Simon 29:22
right? Right? And everything that you just said from a trust perspective, all of that, but also just that is healthy, right? Like, just to be able to be honest and be truthful and say, like, no, do you know how you're showing up? Or whatever the situation is, because that person may not actually know that that's how they're showing up. And that's those life changing moments like, whoa. I didn't realize that that's, you know, how people, how people were engaging with me. And that's actually not how I want to be showing up. I mean, just Yeah, so that's where courage and trust and all of that foundation comes in love that
John Simon Sr. 29:55
I refer to it as tough love to the people that work, that works for me. When they come in and they'd say, Well, I hope we do this. Let me tell you, Hope's not a strategy, pal. We got to get this figured out. Is
Dina Simon 30:07
that where I learned hope is not a strategy, because I use that all the time. Is that where I learned that? Okay, that's great. Love that. Well, Adrian, we also have a lot of Chicago roots. So John, they lived in the Chicago area. I have a lot of family there. So love that you're originally from Illinois,
Adrian Koehler 30:23
yes, yeah. I love Chicago. Love Chicago. I, I grew up in Southern Illinois, so four hours south of Chicago. So our big city we go to his kids, was St Louis most the time. As soon as I get as soon as I get to Chicago, I fell in love with it.
John Simon Sr. 30:36
Yeah, oh yeah. We, we lived there for 14 years, and it was great. So the big question, deep dish or thin crust? Oh,
Adrian Koehler 30:44
I always went deep dish. I don't know if that's called, but Lou
John Simon Sr. 30:48
malbodies, yes, Lulus is always my favorite to go and cortelo get the beef sandwich, and you have to have the dip with the hot pet with the peppers on it. So
Adrian Koehler 31:00
yes, sir, yeah. When I first did my did a summer internship in Chicago. When I was in college, I lived on the west side, lived in North Lawndale. So there was a there was a guy named Wayne Gordon. Haven't spoken his name for a long time. A guy named Wayne Gordon, who was a guy that he was who went to Wheaton, came into Chicago, only white dude in a whole like three mile radius. Started a church there called Lawndale, North Lawndale community church, and he recruited, he talked to Lou malnotti and said, Hey, would you put a pizzeria in my neighborhood? Because nobody, nobody touches my neighborhood, but would you come do it? I'll promise you. Well, you'll be successful. So when I first moved to Chicago and did that summer internship and taught a kid's program and all the stuff you do there, was Lou malno. He's like, two doors down. So I became a believer
Dina Simon 31:43
really quickly. Love that. Nice, nice. Yeah,
John Simon Sr. 31:46
we still get it delivered.
Dina Simon 31:48
We do one 800 lose to go. They'll ship to California. We may have to send you some to thank you for being on the podcast.
Adrian Koehler 31:54
I promise you I'll enjoy it. Okay, all right. My final thought is, people that are listening, first off, Be gracious to yourself. We're all struggling. You know, life is tough, that's true. Things are complex, that's just true. So if you're really hard on yourself and most hard charging leaders, your own worst enemy is in between your ears. So if you haven't heard this today, if you're listening, just be kind to yourself. Number one and number two is get some help so you can raise the bar, because otherwise you're going to die with a bunch of regrets, and life is too short for that, and we don't know how long we've got, we might as well make it count. So if it's us at take new ground or somebody else, reach out for help, that's the most heroic thing a leader can do, is ask for help.
Dina Simon 32:33
I agree. Love that exactly. Amen. Well, Adrian, it's been awesome to have you on thank you so much.
Adrian Koehler 32:39
Thanks so much for having me. This is such an honor. Thank you. Ad
Dina Simon 32:42
Kohler, founder of take new ground and also podcast host of the naked leader podcast. We will make sure we share all of the notes in the show notes, so you know how to get in touch with Adrian, but we've loved this conversation. What an amazing personal story, leadership story, Legacy story, and just so great to have you as part of the Simon Says inspire network. And thank you for joining us for the podcast. As always, I thank my father in law, John Simon, for being my co host, and until we talk again, you.