We are so excited to have Cathy Paper join us on the podcast!
She’s a great friend of Dina’s and also the publisher of her book. Cathy specializes in coaching, training, and empowering sales professionals, business owners, and leaders to elevate their processes and performance.
Cathy has provided invaluable coaching to top executives and managers at renowned companies like Xcel Energy, Zappos, Best Buy, Paramount Pictures, John Deere, and Apple, as well as numerous privately held firms. Cathy’s infectious energy and enthusiasm are evident in her approach as she shares her networking expertise, helping leaders define and achieve their goals. Her natural competitive spirit, honed through her experiences as a runner, basketball and rugby player, and Minnesota State Tennis Doubles Champion, serves as a source of inspiration for those she works with.
Cathy earned her BA from Williams College and holds a Master’s Degree in Organization Development from the University of St. Thomas. She was honored with the prestigious “Real Power 50” award by Minnesota Business Magazine and received the distinguished “Woman on the Way” award from the National Association of Women Business Owners. This award recognizes women business owners who have demonstrated exceptional achievement for themselves and their companies.
Resources:
Website for RockPaperStar
Cathy’s LI Profile
Transcript
John Simon Sr. 0:06
Welcome to Simon Says, inspire a podcast about life, leadership and building legacies. I'm John, Simon,
Dina Simon 0:14
SR and I'm Dina Simon.
John Simon Sr. 0:16
Our guest today is Kathy paper. Kathy is president of rock paper star specializing in coaching, training and empowering sales professionals, business owners and leaders to elevate their processes and performance. Kathy, welcome to the podcast.
Cathy Paper 0:32
Well, thank you, John and Dina.
Dina Simon 0:35
Yay.
John Simon Sr. 0:36
So Kathy, to begin with, why don't you tell us a little bit about your background in yourself and really how you met Dina? Well, I'm
Cathy Paper 0:43
happy to share with you how I met Dina, because Dina is sort of a force of nature, and I remember exactly where we were actually. I'm not sure which city so Dina. Do you remember which city we were in?
Dina Simon 0:56
We were in Hollywood, California. Okay, okay,
Cathy Paper 1:00
so I thought I know
I remember the event. So we were at an event in a big ballroom, and it was called the speaker and author networking group hosted by Larry Binet. And Dina was standing probably 100 yards away from me, and I spotted her right away, because she was wearing a super cute blue and white striped, like skirt dress thing, and I'm not an outfit person, but I noticed her because there was also, like, a lot of energy animating from her. And I had met a lot of people that weekend, and I could tell I was like, I like this person. So somehow, when I got closer into the conversation, we realized we were both from Minnesota. We kind of knew each other. I don't think we knew each other's names, but we knew those different speakers that we were working with, and we just sort of clicked right then and there. And when we got back to Minnesota, I think maybe six months later, or three months later, I don't remember we met up, and I remember saying, You're from
Minnesota, are you? I
kept saying, people from Minnesota don't dress like that, like you're so well dressed. And it was one of those moments where she's like, well, actually, I am from Minnesota, but I lived in San Francisco for a long time. And I was like, there it is. Yeah, it wasn't like, it was just all about the outfit, but there was something about your energy and your presence that when we met there, and that was 10 years ago, 15 years ago, yeah, so
Dina Simon 2:27
it was over 10 years ago, and Jen, part of the story too is I had met somebody at the event and said, like, where I was from, and they're like, Oh, you need to meet her. And pointed to Kathy and said, Kathy is from Minnesota as well. So it's so funny, we go all the way to California, and we have people connecting us, because we're both girls from Minnesota, and then we left. So we did meet at that event, and then we left, and then, like, six months later, I was having coffee with CJ Dubay, who is a friend of both of ours, and I was sharing with her something about being at this conference, and she's like, Oh my gosh, my friend Kathy paper was there, and I said, I met Kathy, so then that's really how we got reconnected with CJ, who reconnected us back here in Minnesota, and we've been fast friends ever since. Well,
John Simon Sr. 3:11
that's a great story, yeah, well, and I
Cathy Paper 3:14
am a native St Paul Minnesota girl, and yet I get asked all the time if I'm not from Minnesota, and I laughed a little bit, because I think I do two things. One, I talk with my hands, and I talk quickly. And two, I'm not afraid to say sort of when I disagree right to the person, which I didn't realize until you know, probably 1015, years ago, that that is what made people ask me if I was abramowski, Minnesota. I thought that's what you're supposed to do, is just
Dina Simon 3:45
tell people Yeah, yeah. And John, when I was standing at event somewhere years ago, and Chrissy Klein was with me, and Kathy's name popped up on my phone, and Chrissy said to me, you know Kathy paper. And I said, I do cool. How do you know Kathy paper? So for podcast listeners, Chrissy Klein is my cousin, and Chrissy knew of Kathy paper because Kathy paper was quite the tennis star back in her day, and so Kristin was younger than Kathy, but knew of her and her reputation within Minnesota as far as tennis accolades. And so it was super fun to connect those dots, too. I love that. I love that the
Cathy Paper 4:28
tennis people and the sports people
come out of the woodwork. And Gina, you know, you and I both share the strength of competition, and
I just, I
think that's awesome, because at the end of the day, it is a small world, yeah, and it's all about it's all about the people. So John, what else would you like to know about me? I'll share anything. I love talking
John Simon Sr. 4:48
Well, that's good because, you know, in reading some information on you, you've worked with some pretty substantial corporations, with Excel Energy and Best Buy and John Deere and one click. Was to my heart Paramount Pictures, because the company that I worked for, the associates, is one point in time, was owned by Gulf and Western who, at the time, owned Paramount Pictures. So I spent a lot of time at the Gulf of Western building in New York City, working with the people with Paramount Oh,
Cathy Paper 5:16
nice, nice. I love that. Well, Paramount Pictures, that was an amazing project that that we worked on. We helped them with some of their culture at the time, and went out to Hollywood and trained on the fish philosophy. And, of course, I love movies, and there was something about being on the set and the location and and just seeing everyone from the gateman that let you in to the people working in the warehouse, to the HR directors, and all of that that you know, really made me understand how many people it takes to make a movie come to life. And of course, I wanted to know, you know, what celebrities had they seen? And I will tell you a little story. Again, I'm, I am a Midwestern girl, but I love celebrities. So when we went and we were having lunch, and there's like, an executive dining room, I went to the ladies room, and when I came out, I was rushing to get back to the table, because, you know, I
didn't want to miss anything. And then
I was a little nervous, but I was, you know, doing this, and I bumped into a guy, and I kind of look up and I'm like, God, that guy looks a lot like Jim Carrey. And like, you know, keep rushing to my table. And sure enough, I look back and I'm like, I just like, if Judge Jim Carrey out of the women's bathroom. So I was like, oh, Kathy, like, you gotta remember where you are sometimes.
John Simon Sr. 6:46
Well, on one of the trips, when we were out there rich Dean, his husband and his brother, John and daughter, Shannon, we were out there and we ate at the commissary. And in comes Henry Winkler, and they were filming happy days there at the time. And Ron Howard, they come in, and they sat there, and you know, they had their lunch just at a table not far from where we were. So you can run into a lot of people on the grounds out there, which it was fun just walking around and getting a tour of the facilities.
Cathy Paper 7:16
Yes. And they kept telling me. They kept telling me, like, Kathy, you got to play it cool. You have to play it cool, like, Don't fuss. And I was like, Okay, well, I love I love celebrities. And anyway,
Dina Simon 7:27
I'll digress, fun.
So you have worked with some really major companies, so talk to us a little bit. But like you talked about, you were teaching the fish philosophies out there when you did that, but talk about some of the corporate work that you do.
Cathy Paper 7:40
So a lot of the corporate work I do, it sort of started when I was working at Best Buy as executive coach and process improvement. You know, really about how do you get the most out of people, and whether it's designing training programs to help people understand, you know, both their roles and what they need to do, or doing change management projects, you know, getting people aligned and talking and kind of leveraging the momentum of the culture. I've done a lot of different things in there to get people going. And when I was first hired at Best Buy, you know, came in behind a lot of Accenture consultants. And I'll never forget the gentleman, Dave Morris, that hired me. He said, Do you think you can hold your own with these Accenture consultants? And I kind of looked at him, and I, you know, I I've been an athlete my full life, and I've, you know, been a captain, but I'm also a good team player and I'm a good competitor. I like to win more, but I'm, you know, it's, it takes a team. And I remember saying to him, I'm like, do I have to do really big PowerPoints, or can I just talk to the people and get them to, like, be fired up? And he's like, he's kind of a laugh. And he's like, No, you don't have to do big PowerPoints. So I've done a couple different things, honestly, where, it's just figuring out what do people need to do to get more engaged and to feel more confident with what they're doing, or to talk to their people in a way that you know some of the best teams I've ever seen. It's how can you get people to relax, relax enough that they'll keep learning and growing, but also keep their eye on like, what's the end result that all these organizations want to give better customer service to perform well? You know, to know how to do things. It's run the gamut of different projects.
John Simon Sr. 9:39
You know what I find amazing. Kathy is back in the 1970s and probably the early 1980s we used to have a slogan, the beatings will continue until morale improves. And it's amazing how today everything is done team wise, and everything you get buy in from the people, compared to the way you. To be in the 70s, and things have really changed, and for so much for the better.
Cathy Paper 10:04
Yeah, yeah. I think, though, you know, what's interesting, John is a couple of the projects, you know, since covid really changed. How do I say this? My grad school professor, I would always ask, How do we know our work has been effective? And she would always say to me, she Christine Quaid, she'd say, Kathy, you can see it when it's working. And I'm like, Well, yeah, but you can't build somebody and say, Oh, you'll see it when it's working, like you have to be able to show it. And since covid, what I've noticed in change projects or in some of the coaching work that I do is so much of the conversation happens online and in chats and inside conversations and in places that you can't always see it that you I really found myself having to dig a little deeper to see like, do these people really like each other? You know? Do they really trust each other. Do they really know how to make each other better? Or, you know, why hasn't anybody ever camera on? I mean, I know we you don't have your camera on today, John, for technical purposes, but, but I kept trying to figure out on some of those subtle things, of, can I tell? Are we making a difference? Because the nature of online made it different to see, is this culture healthy?
Dina Simon 11:23
Right? Yeah, huge, huge shift with covid, with being able to read all that, because so much of it is, as we know, is that one to one, like interaction when you're in rooms with each other, and your ability to read body language and all of that. Where, when you're on Zoom, you don't get that, you get some of it, but you can't get all of it. It's not quite the same. Yeah, yeah. No, it's, it's, it's, it's
Cathy Paper 11:48
interesting to see. And again, I think that's where for for leaders right now, you know, when I think about leaders or sales people, or any of the people I work with, I'm like, I'm always asking them, like, how do you know? How do you know they know what to do? How are your questions, you know? Or are you listening to how people are doing? And when you think about the strain that people were under the last few years, you know, people are sort of burnt out, and you want to get up to be like, Yeah, I'm looking forward to going to work, yeah.
Dina Simon 12:20
And so John, one of the things too. Kathy was my publisher on my book. So she's published a few under her name, and then has worked with other speakers and authors to help them with, you know, taking their their speeches on the road books, publishing and marketing those book launches, and then creating training that goes along with it. So that's one of the ways that we've played together. And in that Kathy, then you also specialize just on that whole relationship strategy and helping people understand, you know, the importance of relationship and networking and how to do that from emerging, you know, young professionals. I know you've done a lot with young professionals just learning, but then we all need to learn and remember how to tap into our networks and our relationships. And I think nothing was more impacted than that, like during covid, like our ability to network and tap into those that we used to see on a day to day basis, like that, was hugely impacted, because then we were all sent home. So share with us a little bit about what you do in relationship building and how you teach people how to network effectively. Well,
Cathy Paper 13:28
interesting. I think that, you know, if you mentioned back to when the pandemic, you know, first started, and all of a sudden people their world got really small, and like, a lot went online, but there were people that, like, didn't know anybody's cell phone number or didn't know how to reach out anymore. Maybe they were watching LinkedIn on the side and didn't realize they could connect with people. So partly, it was a nice time to I'd been talking always about, how do you network on and off the screen? How do you build relationships with people? And, of course, everybody had to build relationships online when the pandemic first started. And what I help people with is really thinking about, how do you do that? What's that balance of making the connection in a way that people will get to know you get to know you faster, to make sure you have a good, deep connection with people. And a lot of people would say, Oh, I send all these comments out in LinkedIn, and I never hear back from anybody. You know. I never reach in. And they say, I connected with all these people, and nothing ever happened. And I would always be like, I'd ask them. I'd say, Well, tell me, did you personalize your invite? And they're like, No, I just put, put the invite. They are pushing the button. I said they just pushed the button and invited somebody. And John, I don't know how much you're using LinkedIn, but it is the most impersonal thing in the world to get somebody that you don't know clicking a button and saying. I'd like to connect with you. And it would be like somebody walking to your front door and saying, I'd like to come in and have dinner with you tonight. Is that okay? And you you don't know them, you don't know who you are, to have this odd reaction. And I'm a pretty open connector and starting to help people understand Who are you reaching out to? Why are you reaching out to them? What are you going to do that's going to be reciprocal, so that you're not just going into this where it's all about you, you're really thinking, how can I build a relationship where we all win? And again, Dina, I would say you, and all the work you're you've done through the years with Simon says, Give. And now this podcast, it's always giving to other people. You're just, you're just a great model of that. And people, people forget, because you think, Okay, I got to get this. I got to get this. We all have a sense of urgency, and I help people kind of find your footing so that you can be authentic. But yes, of course, you want to build good relationships where you can sell more, you can promote your career to the level that you want, or you can raise funds for whatever it is you're passionate about. But people kind of come on so strong because they're nervous that they forget, like, do your homework, or anyway, I have a whole way of helping people think about it. But I just see I see people, they mean, well, but they just come off, sort of like that. I always think about it as the kid in in school that talks so much so fast and is so boastful, and you're like, really, and then, and then you want to find whatever your
John Simon Sr. 16:44
style is. It's apparent you have a an infectious energy, just by the few minutes we spend here. And it's evident and that that really comes out, I'm sure, whenever you work with companies and individuals to try to help them improve in everything that they do. Because no matter what, whether you're in sales or operations, we're all in relationship businesses, and everything has to do with how do people perceive you? How do you perceive them? Yes,
Cathy Paper 17:13
and you know, it's John. It's interesting. You say that I'm infectious because I was thinking to myself, actually, Dino, sort of smiling man, like, Oh no, I'm babbling again about this subject, because I get so excited when people, of course, I love coaching people, you know, that's my, my greatest gift, and I like connecting people second. And I find that I get excited about it, but I also like to get people to find their style. Because when they, when they put on, sort of, whether it's airs or they, they over talk about their successes without thinking about the other person's benefit. You know, we all know that. We just don't say it always out loud, but the more people can really realize building relationships is a win, win. Or, you know, how do you support other people? You just you see everything shift. Everything changes. I kind of see it online happen, where the more genuine people are online, or they say why they're connected to something, or why they're passionate about something, you see different responses. So if anybody's listening to this podcast and you're online and you're like the people who only just like posts on LinkedIn or only heart things, challenge yourself to actually make a comment, actually read the article that somebody post, put the comment out there, and maybe you tag one person and say, Hey, I'd like you to see this. I call that the assist. Hey, I'd like you to see this. Because what happens is, I just don't think people engage in a way that that everybody knows they've got people in their corner, or that they've got people they could reach out to. And, you know, you need your network. Your network is one of your most powerful business tools.
John Simon Sr. 19:06
Well, as Dina said earlier, you know, when everyone was in the office, you would have that time, that personal time, you could go sit and chat with someone, or you'd have a conference room where you'd have three or four people in it, and that's a little bit different today.
Dina Simon 19:19
Yeah, yes, it is and isn't the isn't the quote? Is it? What's the quote about your your network is your net worth? Yeah, your network is your net worth. Sometimes
Cathy Paper 19:30
people think, well, that's just about your you know, your money and what you're doing, but it's also you know, are you? Are you philanthropic? Are you connected into things in your community that make a difference. What do people know you for? Do they know how to refer business to you for things? So
Dina Simon 19:47
because I actually just had this conversation with Mandy today, even about how to reach out for something, because as juniors now she's in her junior year and summer internships like you are a. Have to have next summer's internship kind of solidified before the end of September, which is crazy. So we were chatting about that. So what would be a piece of advice that you would give to a young professional about, you know, how to start establishing your network with some of the advice you give? Well,
Cathy Paper 20:18
I It's interesting. I love, I love working with people. You know, early career, partly because I wasn't the greatest networker in college. In high school, I knew a lot of people, but I wasn't sort of purposeful. And so what I would say to people is, be be purposeful. Is be okay, asking other people to either connect on LinkedIn or to share tips with you for five or 10 minutes, or to talk to your you know, parents, friends, or to ask other people kind of for ideas of who do you know that's in this industry that you're interested in, and to both ask the question and to say, you know, could you help me and and, you know, we all started somewhere, right? And just to do that, but then also, I would say to younger people to be appreciative of it, so let somebody know. Hey, thank you so much. I connected with bill that was a great connection. Let them know what happens, because people that I talk to when they say their help the most people will help you grow your network or help you connect with someone, but they will remember you if you let them know what happened and, and the goal is to build a network for the long term, not to build the network that like, Okay, I got that contact, and then I never speak to you again. You want to collect, you know, sort of collect carefully. And, and I do think, as a young person, to ask, and it feels awkward, and you're like, why would they want to talk to me? Why would I want to do that? You know, maybe don't ask for an hour. Ask for 15
minutes.
Ask for, you know, come prepared with, oh, I noticed you're connected to Susan, who works for WCCO. Could you connect me to her? Here's why they have a job posting that I'd really like to get into. Like, same way you would, you know, I always say to young people and like, it's, it's like shopping or connecting your friends to go to a party. Like, don't make it any more complicated, but, but have good manners and a good strategy, and it will pay off. Nice. Yeah, great. Great
Dina Simon 22:36
advice. I
John Simon Sr. 22:37
think you find that the people really want to engage with you, and they want to help you if you do have a situation where you may need something that they can do to either introduce you or, you know, put you in front of maybe the right person to get an interview or even a job.
Cathy Paper 22:53
And and I, you know, it's so true, John. And the other thing is, sometimes when you're you're younger, you're like, well, they that person didn't respond back to me on LinkedIn. And, you know, I've tried and they didn't, they didn't respond back. Well, you know what, if you look at the person's activity level, they're not on LinkedIn. So that means you got to find their email and email them. Or, as I always say to all these interns I've had, I'm like, use the phone. That's my first lesson on opening day. As always, I'm going to show you a secret to business. And they, you know, get kind of quiet, and I'm like, and I hold up my cell phone, and I say, use this. Let them hear your voice, like, say your name, say hello. Let them hear that you're excited about this. And they're always kind of bug eyed looking at me. And I'm like, Yeah, use the phone. I
John Simon Sr. 23:40
have the same discussion with the five grandchildren a time, and I'll tell them, yeah, we'll text every once in a while, but I really want to hear your voice, because you can tell so much, just by the way, that they share things with you over the telephone that you can't pick up in a text or an email. Yeah,
Dina Simon 23:58
yeah, yeah. We've had some interns too, whether it be Simon says give or first time it says lead, but absolutely, it's like, you actually have to pick up the phone and have a conversation. And they'll be like, what you want me to, like, pick up the phone and actually talk. It's like, yes, it's not just a text or email. And so it is kind of a lost trait, but those that know how to do it, it's awesome,
John Simon Sr. 24:19
a throwback from the olden days. Exactly. Here's the telephone.
Dina Simon 24:23
So Kathy John had asked a little bit, tell us a little bit about yourself. So you said you're in St Paul, tell us about your family and a little bit about your personal life. Well, let's
Cathy Paper 24:33
see. Yep, I live in St Paul, and my husband, Tom, and I have three children that are now. You know, last one's a senior in college, so that seems really weird. I just gave somebody the lecture that I got once of its parenting is the thing that goes both the fastest and the slowest. And so somebody I talked to today had just put his kids to school for kindergarten. Then, like second grade or something. And I said, Well, I really hope you took pictures and that first day of school and all that. So super psyched of that job as being a parent, and I still play tennis and we're going to Nationals, so I'm excited about that. Yay.
What else do they tell you?
John Simon Sr. 25:19
Well, you won't talk about it, so I'll bring it up. Tell us about the honors that you've received. Pretty prestigious ones, the real power 50 award for Minnesota Business Magazine and the also the National Association of Women Business Owners, with the woman on the way award. And I know you won't talk about them, so I'll bring them up so that you can talk about them. Well,
Cathy Paper 25:38
the National Association of Women Business Owners is a really interesting organization to help business owners. I didn't, not until I joined it. Did I realize that women business owners, like, couldn't get loans to start their business without their husband up until, like, was it like, the 70s? Probably like it was something that just sort of, when I heard it, it blew my mind, but I won the women on the way award. I was doing a lot of book publishing and promotion for speakers and authors, and that was something that I won. And I remember what I wanted. I was so sort of flattered and startled, and, you know, kind of couldn't believe it. But, of course, I love recognition, so that was really nice. Then I won the Minnesota Business real power 50, which our friend Tamara Prado was involved with that. And what that award was was, you know, they have all kinds of business awards for people that are working for large companies or big companies, and kind of people know who they are, but this award was about sort of people that you didn't necessarily know who they are, but they were making things happen, or were kind of an influencer, or somebody that you might need to know what they were doing. So again, that was one that was pretty flattering to win. And in fact, at the time, I didn't really realize, like, sort of how nice an award that was until I sat with my friend John stabik, who works at the University of Minnesota, and he runs Minnesota Cup, which is a big entrepreneurial program that gives away a lot of money, and he and I were both sitting There by ourselves, where all these other people had tables of their whole family. And we kind of looked at each other and we were like, I think we should have invited our families to this award. And we both kind of laughed, because we we must have missed the memo that, like this was kind of a big deal award. And I said I didn't even think to invite my spouse because I knew he wouldn't really want to come, or, you know, whatever. And then we laughed, because we were like, Oh, we wished we had had our families there to celebrate, because it was a really nice, lovely evening, and super good award. Dina's a winner too. So I am. Oh, okay, I
John Simon Sr. 27:58
wasn't aware of that. See, yeah, you just don't you got to put it out there. I
Dina Simon 28:02
put it out there. Exactly you do it.
John Simon Sr. 28:05
You made a mention Kathy about, you know, women sometimes having trouble back in the probably 70s and 80s, getting loans. And I think Dina probably knows this story, that there was a young lady here in Dallas by the name of Mary Kay Ash who founded Mary Kay Cosmetics, and she went into a local car dealer to get a new car. And the salesman says, Well, you bring your husband by here, and we'll talk about it. And needless to say, he didn't sell Mary Kay Asher car. No,
Dina Simon 28:32
nope. And John, so I have to go back to my memory bank, because Kathy, I sold Mary Kay for a while when I lived in Dallas and got to go to, like, I Mary Kay was, like, just arm's throw from me at one of the national conferences, but didn't even she was either a widow or she, because I think she was a single mom at the time, so I don't even think she had a quote, unquote husband to bring in, like it was her, yeah, yeah. So that that dealership sure missed out on all the pink Cadillacs that came after that. Exactly what happened?
Cathy Paper 29:03
Yeah, exactly, well, and I think one of the things John, it's interesting that you tell that story, because I do tell people when we're working on relationships is I say things like, have as much diversity in your network as you can. Because, you know, while I love the the National Association of Women Business Owners, and I'm on the board of teen women, I also am part of organizations where, you know, I'm in the minority as a woman in the room, or I'm part of, you know, trying to broaden the diversity of my network by age, by gender, by race. Because what it does is it just again, sets us all up so that everybody wins and everybody gets access to people or to different customers or to good ideas. And you know, the more we can kind of do that, the more we can. Kind of see sort of things change. I was on the board of the Friends of the public library in St Paul, and they are the fundraising arm for the library, and one of the statistics that they shared was that in St Paul, where I've lived, you know, almost my entire life, that 25% of the families did not have internet access. And if you think about that, that was probably 10 years ago, you know what that meant is
kids weren't
able to go home and do their homework when the teacher would be assigning something. And in a lot of school districts, you know, teachers know what's going on in the home, but the library was a place where there were, you know, study rooms, and people were able to get access to the computer. And when I heard that, I just thought, Okay, we got to do something like, this is not, this is not how, you know, our city should go in again, Dina and your family, what they've done to help kids have birthday parties or to gain things that that again, from a diversity standpoint, how do we make sure everybody wins at some of these things? So
how'd they get on that tangent?
John Simon Sr. 31:10
Yeah, but we've talked about life leadership, and how about about building legacies? And you know, when Dean always talks about the legacies, it's not only the future, but it's really the past and really what you're doing today also. So
Dina Simon 31:23
we're gonna put you on the spot, Kathy, so legacy, and you and I have talked a bit about this. So what's the legacy that you're living out right now?
Cathy Paper 31:31
You know you were who taught me that word? I remember the sheet of paper, and I looked at you and I was like, Are you kidding me? I can barely survive right now, let
alone think about my legacy.
And I think my legacy is around that everybody had that diversity of connections so that, you know, again, as much as I'm a competitive person and I really like to win. I want to bring the people in my network. I call it your all star network. I want to bring them along with me, or through me, or I want to support them as as much as I can. So you know, my legacy would be. How can I have some of the statistics in the communities I live in or the people I work with change so that everybody is successful at accomplishing our goals. Yeah,
Dina Simon 32:30
I love that, and I see you absolutely living that out a year ago, when we needed a warehouse to have Simon says give you were like, hello, why didn't you just call me, and two minutes later you had a spot for us. So yes, you're all about trying to make fast connections, meaningful connections, opening up your network, and then that next level of, you know, asking your network, hey, so and so needs this. How do we help them? And you do that fast and very efficiently. And that goes speaks volumes to the deep level of network that you have that they want to lean in and support you. I would also say, because I know you as personal friend, you are building your legacy. You're a fantastic mother to your three children, as well as a daughter to your aging parents and all that you have been faced with was they get older, and so you're in that generation where you've got your parents, you're taking care of, you've gotten almost your children all done with. You got one more to graduate from college, but there's a lot going on, and you've managed to navigate through all of that as well and building out your legacy through the people that love you and your family.
Cathy Paper 33:38
That's true. It is my I'd say that the being a parent is the greatest job you'll ever have, and the pay is not great, but it's, it's not about the pay. The rewards are. The rewards totally are. And John, when Dina told me she was doing this with you, you know, I've got a podcast too, and I had my dad on with my son, and my brother was just talking about it. I know he kind of wants to be a guest on it, and I don't know if we would argue or not on the show or not, so I'm a little evidence, but I don't
John Simon Sr. 34:12
want to rush it very much. But I will tell you one thing, the smile that I can see on your face right now that other people, of course, can't see. Where do you have grandchildren? Oh,
Cathy Paper 34:22
yeah. Oh, I heard about that. That's when
John Simon Sr. 34:25
the fun begins. That's
Cathy Paper 34:26
what, you know, what? Chad, it's funny. You say that because my sister's kids had two of her kids have had grandchildren. She's a new grandparent. And when we went and just saw the grandbaby, that's the second time I've seen her little baby, I started to cheer up. I was like, I want to bring it into them crying. I'm like, oh, no, this is just so lovely about all of life so well. And
John Simon Sr. 34:50
what you do is, as you start living through their accomplishments as like Mandy with Simon says, Give and our other four grandchildren some of the things that they've done in their. Life, and you'll hear them in the future on the podcast, but there would really make the life important when your children are raised and then you have the grandchildren, yes, yes, yeah. Dini normally ends it with a question, and everyone that I've talked to so far has really enjoyed the question, what would you tell your 20 year old self? What
Cathy Paper 35:20
would I tell my 20 year old self? You mean, besides, don't drink so much beer. No, no, don't
John Simon Sr. 35:29
cut back on that.
Cathy Paper 35:33
What would I tell my 20 year old self?
I think I think I would tell my 20 year old self to speak up a little bit more and to also, I think, have a little bit of confidence that it will all unfold the right way. I think I spent, oddly, spent some of my 20s wondering, What am I doing? Is this? I mean, John, I was an investment banker right out of college, you know. And no offense to investment bankers, but that was not the fit for me. So yeah, that's probably what I'd say the 20 year old self is, speak up and have some more faith in yourself that it will all work out and of course, surround yourself with good people, which I always did in my 20s. You know, I have my whole life, but maybe speak up a little bit more,
John Simon Sr. 36:29
right? Love.
Dina Simon 36:30
It. Awesome. Well, Kathy, anything else that you want our podcast listeners to take away from our time today?
Cathy Paper 36:37
I think just you know what? Keep keep having fun and keep listening. And I love this. The
whole generational thing is great,
John Simon Sr. 36:45
awesome. The podcast. Time goes pretty quickly. It
Dina Simon 36:49
does. It does well. Thank you for being on our podcast today. We really appreciate it and appreciate all that you bring to the world, and certainly to my life and my family's life. And thank you. You're the best. I would like to thank my good friend Kathy paper for joining us on the podcast today. I'll make sure in the show notes you know how to get in touch with her. She has a last name that she got to play on as well from a marketing perspective, just like me with my last name, Simon. So her company is rock paper star, and those of us that know her as a friend, we actually just call her paper. So paper, thanks for being on the podcast. As always, I think my father in law, John Simon, for the conversation and for CO hosting with me and until we meet again. Thanks. You.
Welcome to Simon Says, inspire a podcast about life, leadership and building legacies. I'm John, Simon,
Dina Simon 0:14
SR and I'm Dina Simon.
John Simon Sr. 0:16
Our guest today is Kathy paper. Kathy is president of rock paper star specializing in coaching, training and empowering sales professionals, business owners and leaders to elevate their processes and performance. Kathy, welcome to the podcast.
Cathy Paper 0:32
Well, thank you, John and Dina.
Dina Simon 0:35
Yay.
John Simon Sr. 0:36
So Kathy, to begin with, why don't you tell us a little bit about your background in yourself and really how you met Dina? Well, I'm
Cathy Paper 0:43
happy to share with you how I met Dina, because Dina is sort of a force of nature, and I remember exactly where we were actually. I'm not sure which city so Dina. Do you remember which city we were in?
Dina Simon 0:56
We were in Hollywood, California. Okay, okay,
Cathy Paper 1:00
so I thought I know
I remember the event. So we were at an event in a big ballroom, and it was called the speaker and author networking group hosted by Larry Binet. And Dina was standing probably 100 yards away from me, and I spotted her right away, because she was wearing a super cute blue and white striped, like skirt dress thing, and I'm not an outfit person, but I noticed her because there was also, like, a lot of energy animating from her. And I had met a lot of people that weekend, and I could tell I was like, I like this person. So somehow, when I got closer into the conversation, we realized we were both from Minnesota. We kind of knew each other. I don't think we knew each other's names, but we knew those different speakers that we were working with, and we just sort of clicked right then and there. And when we got back to Minnesota, I think maybe six months later, or three months later, I don't remember we met up, and I remember saying, You're from
Minnesota, are you? I
kept saying, people from Minnesota don't dress like that, like you're so well dressed. And it was one of those moments where she's like, well, actually, I am from Minnesota, but I lived in San Francisco for a long time. And I was like, there it is. Yeah, it wasn't like, it was just all about the outfit, but there was something about your energy and your presence that when we met there, and that was 10 years ago, 15 years ago, yeah, so
Dina Simon 2:27
it was over 10 years ago, and Jen, part of the story too is I had met somebody at the event and said, like, where I was from, and they're like, Oh, you need to meet her. And pointed to Kathy and said, Kathy is from Minnesota as well. So it's so funny, we go all the way to California, and we have people connecting us, because we're both girls from Minnesota, and then we left. So we did meet at that event, and then we left, and then, like, six months later, I was having coffee with CJ Dubay, who is a friend of both of ours, and I was sharing with her something about being at this conference, and she's like, Oh my gosh, my friend Kathy paper was there, and I said, I met Kathy, so then that's really how we got reconnected with CJ, who reconnected us back here in Minnesota, and we've been fast friends ever since. Well,
John Simon Sr. 3:11
that's a great story, yeah, well, and I
Cathy Paper 3:14
am a native St Paul Minnesota girl, and yet I get asked all the time if I'm not from Minnesota, and I laughed a little bit, because I think I do two things. One, I talk with my hands, and I talk quickly. And two, I'm not afraid to say sort of when I disagree right to the person, which I didn't realize until you know, probably 1015, years ago, that that is what made people ask me if I was abramowski, Minnesota. I thought that's what you're supposed to do, is just
Dina Simon 3:45
tell people Yeah, yeah. And John, when I was standing at event somewhere years ago, and Chrissy Klein was with me, and Kathy's name popped up on my phone, and Chrissy said to me, you know Kathy paper. And I said, I do cool. How do you know Kathy paper? So for podcast listeners, Chrissy Klein is my cousin, and Chrissy knew of Kathy paper because Kathy paper was quite the tennis star back in her day, and so Kristin was younger than Kathy, but knew of her and her reputation within Minnesota as far as tennis accolades. And so it was super fun to connect those dots, too. I love that. I love that the
Cathy Paper 4:28
tennis people and the sports people
come out of the woodwork. And Gina, you know, you and I both share the strength of competition, and
I just, I
think that's awesome, because at the end of the day, it is a small world, yeah, and it's all about it's all about the people. So John, what else would you like to know about me? I'll share anything. I love talking
John Simon Sr. 4:48
Well, that's good because, you know, in reading some information on you, you've worked with some pretty substantial corporations, with Excel Energy and Best Buy and John Deere and one click. Was to my heart Paramount Pictures, because the company that I worked for, the associates, is one point in time, was owned by Gulf and Western who, at the time, owned Paramount Pictures. So I spent a lot of time at the Gulf of Western building in New York City, working with the people with Paramount Oh,
Cathy Paper 5:16
nice, nice. I love that. Well, Paramount Pictures, that was an amazing project that that we worked on. We helped them with some of their culture at the time, and went out to Hollywood and trained on the fish philosophy. And, of course, I love movies, and there was something about being on the set and the location and and just seeing everyone from the gateman that let you in to the people working in the warehouse, to the HR directors, and all of that that you know, really made me understand how many people it takes to make a movie come to life. And of course, I wanted to know, you know, what celebrities had they seen? And I will tell you a little story. Again, I'm, I am a Midwestern girl, but I love celebrities. So when we went and we were having lunch, and there's like, an executive dining room, I went to the ladies room, and when I came out, I was rushing to get back to the table, because, you know, I
didn't want to miss anything. And then
I was a little nervous, but I was, you know, doing this, and I bumped into a guy, and I kind of look up and I'm like, God, that guy looks a lot like Jim Carrey. And like, you know, keep rushing to my table. And sure enough, I look back and I'm like, I just like, if Judge Jim Carrey out of the women's bathroom. So I was like, oh, Kathy, like, you gotta remember where you are sometimes.
John Simon Sr. 6:46
Well, on one of the trips, when we were out there rich Dean, his husband and his brother, John and daughter, Shannon, we were out there and we ate at the commissary. And in comes Henry Winkler, and they were filming happy days there at the time. And Ron Howard, they come in, and they sat there, and you know, they had their lunch just at a table not far from where we were. So you can run into a lot of people on the grounds out there, which it was fun just walking around and getting a tour of the facilities.
Cathy Paper 7:16
Yes. And they kept telling me. They kept telling me, like, Kathy, you got to play it cool. You have to play it cool, like, Don't fuss. And I was like, Okay, well, I love I love celebrities. And anyway,
Dina Simon 7:27
I'll digress, fun.
So you have worked with some really major companies, so talk to us a little bit. But like you talked about, you were teaching the fish philosophies out there when you did that, but talk about some of the corporate work that you do.
Cathy Paper 7:40
So a lot of the corporate work I do, it sort of started when I was working at Best Buy as executive coach and process improvement. You know, really about how do you get the most out of people, and whether it's designing training programs to help people understand, you know, both their roles and what they need to do, or doing change management projects, you know, getting people aligned and talking and kind of leveraging the momentum of the culture. I've done a lot of different things in there to get people going. And when I was first hired at Best Buy, you know, came in behind a lot of Accenture consultants. And I'll never forget the gentleman, Dave Morris, that hired me. He said, Do you think you can hold your own with these Accenture consultants? And I kind of looked at him, and I, you know, I I've been an athlete my full life, and I've, you know, been a captain, but I'm also a good team player and I'm a good competitor. I like to win more, but I'm, you know, it's, it takes a team. And I remember saying to him, I'm like, do I have to do really big PowerPoints, or can I just talk to the people and get them to, like, be fired up? And he's like, he's kind of a laugh. And he's like, No, you don't have to do big PowerPoints. So I've done a couple different things, honestly, where, it's just figuring out what do people need to do to get more engaged and to feel more confident with what they're doing, or to talk to their people in a way that you know some of the best teams I've ever seen. It's how can you get people to relax, relax enough that they'll keep learning and growing, but also keep their eye on like, what's the end result that all these organizations want to give better customer service to perform well? You know, to know how to do things. It's run the gamut of different projects.
John Simon Sr. 9:39
You know what I find amazing. Kathy is back in the 1970s and probably the early 1980s we used to have a slogan, the beatings will continue until morale improves. And it's amazing how today everything is done team wise, and everything you get buy in from the people, compared to the way you. To be in the 70s, and things have really changed, and for so much for the better.
Cathy Paper 10:04
Yeah, yeah. I think, though, you know, what's interesting, John is a couple of the projects, you know, since covid really changed. How do I say this? My grad school professor, I would always ask, How do we know our work has been effective? And she would always say to me, she Christine Quaid, she'd say, Kathy, you can see it when it's working. And I'm like, Well, yeah, but you can't build somebody and say, Oh, you'll see it when it's working, like you have to be able to show it. And since covid, what I've noticed in change projects or in some of the coaching work that I do is so much of the conversation happens online and in chats and inside conversations and in places that you can't always see it that you I really found myself having to dig a little deeper to see like, do these people really like each other? You know? Do they really trust each other. Do they really know how to make each other better? Or, you know, why hasn't anybody ever camera on? I mean, I know we you don't have your camera on today, John, for technical purposes, but, but I kept trying to figure out on some of those subtle things, of, can I tell? Are we making a difference? Because the nature of online made it different to see, is this culture healthy?
Dina Simon 11:23
Right? Yeah, huge, huge shift with covid, with being able to read all that, because so much of it is, as we know, is that one to one, like interaction when you're in rooms with each other, and your ability to read body language and all of that. Where, when you're on Zoom, you don't get that, you get some of it, but you can't get all of it. It's not quite the same. Yeah, yeah. No, it's, it's, it's, it's
Cathy Paper 11:48
interesting to see. And again, I think that's where for for leaders right now, you know, when I think about leaders or sales people, or any of the people I work with, I'm like, I'm always asking them, like, how do you know? How do you know they know what to do? How are your questions, you know? Or are you listening to how people are doing? And when you think about the strain that people were under the last few years, you know, people are sort of burnt out, and you want to get up to be like, Yeah, I'm looking forward to going to work, yeah.
Dina Simon 12:20
And so John, one of the things too. Kathy was my publisher on my book. So she's published a few under her name, and then has worked with other speakers and authors to help them with, you know, taking their their speeches on the road books, publishing and marketing those book launches, and then creating training that goes along with it. So that's one of the ways that we've played together. And in that Kathy, then you also specialize just on that whole relationship strategy and helping people understand, you know, the importance of relationship and networking and how to do that from emerging, you know, young professionals. I know you've done a lot with young professionals just learning, but then we all need to learn and remember how to tap into our networks and our relationships. And I think nothing was more impacted than that, like during covid, like our ability to network and tap into those that we used to see on a day to day basis, like that, was hugely impacted, because then we were all sent home. So share with us a little bit about what you do in relationship building and how you teach people how to network effectively. Well,
Cathy Paper 13:28
interesting. I think that, you know, if you mentioned back to when the pandemic, you know, first started, and all of a sudden people their world got really small, and like, a lot went online, but there were people that, like, didn't know anybody's cell phone number or didn't know how to reach out anymore. Maybe they were watching LinkedIn on the side and didn't realize they could connect with people. So partly, it was a nice time to I'd been talking always about, how do you network on and off the screen? How do you build relationships with people? And, of course, everybody had to build relationships online when the pandemic first started. And what I help people with is really thinking about, how do you do that? What's that balance of making the connection in a way that people will get to know you get to know you faster, to make sure you have a good, deep connection with people. And a lot of people would say, Oh, I send all these comments out in LinkedIn, and I never hear back from anybody. You know. I never reach in. And they say, I connected with all these people, and nothing ever happened. And I would always be like, I'd ask them. I'd say, Well, tell me, did you personalize your invite? And they're like, No, I just put, put the invite. They are pushing the button. I said they just pushed the button and invited somebody. And John, I don't know how much you're using LinkedIn, but it is the most impersonal thing in the world to get somebody that you don't know clicking a button and saying. I'd like to connect with you. And it would be like somebody walking to your front door and saying, I'd like to come in and have dinner with you tonight. Is that okay? And you you don't know them, you don't know who you are, to have this odd reaction. And I'm a pretty open connector and starting to help people understand Who are you reaching out to? Why are you reaching out to them? What are you going to do that's going to be reciprocal, so that you're not just going into this where it's all about you, you're really thinking, how can I build a relationship where we all win? And again, Dina, I would say you, and all the work you're you've done through the years with Simon says, Give. And now this podcast, it's always giving to other people. You're just, you're just a great model of that. And people, people forget, because you think, Okay, I got to get this. I got to get this. We all have a sense of urgency, and I help people kind of find your footing so that you can be authentic. But yes, of course, you want to build good relationships where you can sell more, you can promote your career to the level that you want, or you can raise funds for whatever it is you're passionate about. But people kind of come on so strong because they're nervous that they forget, like, do your homework, or anyway, I have a whole way of helping people think about it. But I just see I see people, they mean, well, but they just come off, sort of like that. I always think about it as the kid in in school that talks so much so fast and is so boastful, and you're like, really, and then, and then you want to find whatever your
John Simon Sr. 16:44
style is. It's apparent you have a an infectious energy, just by the few minutes we spend here. And it's evident and that that really comes out, I'm sure, whenever you work with companies and individuals to try to help them improve in everything that they do. Because no matter what, whether you're in sales or operations, we're all in relationship businesses, and everything has to do with how do people perceive you? How do you perceive them? Yes,
Cathy Paper 17:13
and you know, it's John. It's interesting. You say that I'm infectious because I was thinking to myself, actually, Dino, sort of smiling man, like, Oh no, I'm babbling again about this subject, because I get so excited when people, of course, I love coaching people, you know, that's my, my greatest gift, and I like connecting people second. And I find that I get excited about it, but I also like to get people to find their style. Because when they, when they put on, sort of, whether it's airs or they, they over talk about their successes without thinking about the other person's benefit. You know, we all know that. We just don't say it always out loud, but the more people can really realize building relationships is a win, win. Or, you know, how do you support other people? You just you see everything shift. Everything changes. I kind of see it online happen, where the more genuine people are online, or they say why they're connected to something, or why they're passionate about something, you see different responses. So if anybody's listening to this podcast and you're online and you're like the people who only just like posts on LinkedIn or only heart things, challenge yourself to actually make a comment, actually read the article that somebody post, put the comment out there, and maybe you tag one person and say, Hey, I'd like you to see this. I call that the assist. Hey, I'd like you to see this. Because what happens is, I just don't think people engage in a way that that everybody knows they've got people in their corner, or that they've got people they could reach out to. And, you know, you need your network. Your network is one of your most powerful business tools.
John Simon Sr. 19:06
Well, as Dina said earlier, you know, when everyone was in the office, you would have that time, that personal time, you could go sit and chat with someone, or you'd have a conference room where you'd have three or four people in it, and that's a little bit different today.
Dina Simon 19:19
Yeah, yes, it is and isn't the isn't the quote? Is it? What's the quote about your your network is your net worth? Yeah, your network is your net worth. Sometimes
Cathy Paper 19:30
people think, well, that's just about your you know, your money and what you're doing, but it's also you know, are you? Are you philanthropic? Are you connected into things in your community that make a difference. What do people know you for? Do they know how to refer business to you for things? So
Dina Simon 19:47
because I actually just had this conversation with Mandy today, even about how to reach out for something, because as juniors now she's in her junior year and summer internships like you are a. Have to have next summer's internship kind of solidified before the end of September, which is crazy. So we were chatting about that. So what would be a piece of advice that you would give to a young professional about, you know, how to start establishing your network with some of the advice you give? Well,
Cathy Paper 20:18
I It's interesting. I love, I love working with people. You know, early career, partly because I wasn't the greatest networker in college. In high school, I knew a lot of people, but I wasn't sort of purposeful. And so what I would say to people is, be be purposeful. Is be okay, asking other people to either connect on LinkedIn or to share tips with you for five or 10 minutes, or to talk to your you know, parents, friends, or to ask other people kind of for ideas of who do you know that's in this industry that you're interested in, and to both ask the question and to say, you know, could you help me and and, you know, we all started somewhere, right? And just to do that, but then also, I would say to younger people to be appreciative of it, so let somebody know. Hey, thank you so much. I connected with bill that was a great connection. Let them know what happens, because people that I talk to when they say their help the most people will help you grow your network or help you connect with someone, but they will remember you if you let them know what happened and, and the goal is to build a network for the long term, not to build the network that like, Okay, I got that contact, and then I never speak to you again. You want to collect, you know, sort of collect carefully. And, and I do think, as a young person, to ask, and it feels awkward, and you're like, why would they want to talk to me? Why would I want to do that? You know, maybe don't ask for an hour. Ask for 15
minutes.
Ask for, you know, come prepared with, oh, I noticed you're connected to Susan, who works for WCCO. Could you connect me to her? Here's why they have a job posting that I'd really like to get into. Like, same way you would, you know, I always say to young people and like, it's, it's like shopping or connecting your friends to go to a party. Like, don't make it any more complicated, but, but have good manners and a good strategy, and it will pay off. Nice. Yeah, great. Great
Dina Simon 22:36
advice. I
John Simon Sr. 22:37
think you find that the people really want to engage with you, and they want to help you if you do have a situation where you may need something that they can do to either introduce you or, you know, put you in front of maybe the right person to get an interview or even a job.
Cathy Paper 22:53
And and I, you know, it's so true, John. And the other thing is, sometimes when you're you're younger, you're like, well, they that person didn't respond back to me on LinkedIn. And, you know, I've tried and they didn't, they didn't respond back. Well, you know what, if you look at the person's activity level, they're not on LinkedIn. So that means you got to find their email and email them. Or, as I always say to all these interns I've had, I'm like, use the phone. That's my first lesson on opening day. As always, I'm going to show you a secret to business. And they, you know, get kind of quiet, and I'm like, and I hold up my cell phone, and I say, use this. Let them hear your voice, like, say your name, say hello. Let them hear that you're excited about this. And they're always kind of bug eyed looking at me. And I'm like, Yeah, use the phone. I
John Simon Sr. 23:40
have the same discussion with the five grandchildren a time, and I'll tell them, yeah, we'll text every once in a while, but I really want to hear your voice, because you can tell so much, just by the way, that they share things with you over the telephone that you can't pick up in a text or an email. Yeah,
Dina Simon 23:58
yeah, yeah. We've had some interns too, whether it be Simon says give or first time it says lead, but absolutely, it's like, you actually have to pick up the phone and have a conversation. And they'll be like, what you want me to, like, pick up the phone and actually talk. It's like, yes, it's not just a text or email. And so it is kind of a lost trait, but those that know how to do it, it's awesome,
John Simon Sr. 24:19
a throwback from the olden days. Exactly. Here's the telephone.
Dina Simon 24:23
So Kathy John had asked a little bit, tell us a little bit about yourself. So you said you're in St Paul, tell us about your family and a little bit about your personal life. Well, let's
Cathy Paper 24:33
see. Yep, I live in St Paul, and my husband, Tom, and I have three children that are now. You know, last one's a senior in college, so that seems really weird. I just gave somebody the lecture that I got once of its parenting is the thing that goes both the fastest and the slowest. And so somebody I talked to today had just put his kids to school for kindergarten. Then, like second grade or something. And I said, Well, I really hope you took pictures and that first day of school and all that. So super psyched of that job as being a parent, and I still play tennis and we're going to Nationals, so I'm excited about that. Yay.
What else do they tell you?
John Simon Sr. 25:19
Well, you won't talk about it, so I'll bring it up. Tell us about the honors that you've received. Pretty prestigious ones, the real power 50 award for Minnesota Business Magazine and the also the National Association of Women Business Owners, with the woman on the way award. And I know you won't talk about them, so I'll bring them up so that you can talk about them. Well,
Cathy Paper 25:38
the National Association of Women Business Owners is a really interesting organization to help business owners. I didn't, not until I joined it. Did I realize that women business owners, like, couldn't get loans to start their business without their husband up until, like, was it like, the 70s? Probably like it was something that just sort of, when I heard it, it blew my mind, but I won the women on the way award. I was doing a lot of book publishing and promotion for speakers and authors, and that was something that I won. And I remember what I wanted. I was so sort of flattered and startled, and, you know, kind of couldn't believe it. But, of course, I love recognition, so that was really nice. Then I won the Minnesota Business real power 50, which our friend Tamara Prado was involved with that. And what that award was was, you know, they have all kinds of business awards for people that are working for large companies or big companies, and kind of people know who they are, but this award was about sort of people that you didn't necessarily know who they are, but they were making things happen, or were kind of an influencer, or somebody that you might need to know what they were doing. So again, that was one that was pretty flattering to win. And in fact, at the time, I didn't really realize, like, sort of how nice an award that was until I sat with my friend John stabik, who works at the University of Minnesota, and he runs Minnesota Cup, which is a big entrepreneurial program that gives away a lot of money, and he and I were both sitting There by ourselves, where all these other people had tables of their whole family. And we kind of looked at each other and we were like, I think we should have invited our families to this award. And we both kind of laughed, because we we must have missed the memo that, like this was kind of a big deal award. And I said I didn't even think to invite my spouse because I knew he wouldn't really want to come, or, you know, whatever. And then we laughed, because we were like, Oh, we wished we had had our families there to celebrate, because it was a really nice, lovely evening, and super good award. Dina's a winner too. So I am. Oh, okay, I
John Simon Sr. 27:58
wasn't aware of that. See, yeah, you just don't you got to put it out there. I
Dina Simon 28:02
put it out there. Exactly you do it.
John Simon Sr. 28:05
You made a mention Kathy about, you know, women sometimes having trouble back in the probably 70s and 80s, getting loans. And I think Dina probably knows this story, that there was a young lady here in Dallas by the name of Mary Kay Ash who founded Mary Kay Cosmetics, and she went into a local car dealer to get a new car. And the salesman says, Well, you bring your husband by here, and we'll talk about it. And needless to say, he didn't sell Mary Kay Asher car. No,
Dina Simon 28:32
nope. And John, so I have to go back to my memory bank, because Kathy, I sold Mary Kay for a while when I lived in Dallas and got to go to, like, I Mary Kay was, like, just arm's throw from me at one of the national conferences, but didn't even she was either a widow or she, because I think she was a single mom at the time, so I don't even think she had a quote, unquote husband to bring in, like it was her, yeah, yeah. So that that dealership sure missed out on all the pink Cadillacs that came after that. Exactly what happened?
Cathy Paper 29:03
Yeah, exactly, well, and I think one of the things John, it's interesting that you tell that story, because I do tell people when we're working on relationships is I say things like, have as much diversity in your network as you can. Because, you know, while I love the the National Association of Women Business Owners, and I'm on the board of teen women, I also am part of organizations where, you know, I'm in the minority as a woman in the room, or I'm part of, you know, trying to broaden the diversity of my network by age, by gender, by race. Because what it does is it just again, sets us all up so that everybody wins and everybody gets access to people or to different customers or to good ideas. And you know, the more we can kind of do that, the more we can. Kind of see sort of things change. I was on the board of the Friends of the public library in St Paul, and they are the fundraising arm for the library, and one of the statistics that they shared was that in St Paul, where I've lived, you know, almost my entire life, that 25% of the families did not have internet access. And if you think about that, that was probably 10 years ago, you know what that meant is
kids weren't
able to go home and do their homework when the teacher would be assigning something. And in a lot of school districts, you know, teachers know what's going on in the home, but the library was a place where there were, you know, study rooms, and people were able to get access to the computer. And when I heard that, I just thought, Okay, we got to do something like, this is not, this is not how, you know, our city should go in again, Dina and your family, what they've done to help kids have birthday parties or to gain things that that again, from a diversity standpoint, how do we make sure everybody wins at some of these things? So
how'd they get on that tangent?
John Simon Sr. 31:10
Yeah, but we've talked about life leadership, and how about about building legacies? And you know, when Dean always talks about the legacies, it's not only the future, but it's really the past and really what you're doing today also. So
Dina Simon 31:23
we're gonna put you on the spot, Kathy, so legacy, and you and I have talked a bit about this. So what's the legacy that you're living out right now?
Cathy Paper 31:31
You know you were who taught me that word? I remember the sheet of paper, and I looked at you and I was like, Are you kidding me? I can barely survive right now, let
alone think about my legacy.
And I think my legacy is around that everybody had that diversity of connections so that, you know, again, as much as I'm a competitive person and I really like to win. I want to bring the people in my network. I call it your all star network. I want to bring them along with me, or through me, or I want to support them as as much as I can. So you know, my legacy would be. How can I have some of the statistics in the communities I live in or the people I work with change so that everybody is successful at accomplishing our goals. Yeah,
Dina Simon 32:30
I love that, and I see you absolutely living that out a year ago, when we needed a warehouse to have Simon says give you were like, hello, why didn't you just call me, and two minutes later you had a spot for us. So yes, you're all about trying to make fast connections, meaningful connections, opening up your network, and then that next level of, you know, asking your network, hey, so and so needs this. How do we help them? And you do that fast and very efficiently. And that goes speaks volumes to the deep level of network that you have that they want to lean in and support you. I would also say, because I know you as personal friend, you are building your legacy. You're a fantastic mother to your three children, as well as a daughter to your aging parents and all that you have been faced with was they get older, and so you're in that generation where you've got your parents, you're taking care of, you've gotten almost your children all done with. You got one more to graduate from college, but there's a lot going on, and you've managed to navigate through all of that as well and building out your legacy through the people that love you and your family.
Cathy Paper 33:38
That's true. It is my I'd say that the being a parent is the greatest job you'll ever have, and the pay is not great, but it's, it's not about the pay. The rewards are. The rewards totally are. And John, when Dina told me she was doing this with you, you know, I've got a podcast too, and I had my dad on with my son, and my brother was just talking about it. I know he kind of wants to be a guest on it, and I don't know if we would argue or not on the show or not, so I'm a little evidence, but I don't
John Simon Sr. 34:12
want to rush it very much. But I will tell you one thing, the smile that I can see on your face right now that other people, of course, can't see. Where do you have grandchildren? Oh,
Cathy Paper 34:22
yeah. Oh, I heard about that. That's when
John Simon Sr. 34:25
the fun begins. That's
Cathy Paper 34:26
what, you know, what? Chad, it's funny. You say that because my sister's kids had two of her kids have had grandchildren. She's a new grandparent. And when we went and just saw the grandbaby, that's the second time I've seen her little baby, I started to cheer up. I was like, I want to bring it into them crying. I'm like, oh, no, this is just so lovely about all of life so well. And
John Simon Sr. 34:50
what you do is, as you start living through their accomplishments as like Mandy with Simon says, Give and our other four grandchildren some of the things that they've done in their. Life, and you'll hear them in the future on the podcast, but there would really make the life important when your children are raised and then you have the grandchildren, yes, yes, yeah. Dini normally ends it with a question, and everyone that I've talked to so far has really enjoyed the question, what would you tell your 20 year old self? What
Cathy Paper 35:20
would I tell my 20 year old self? You mean, besides, don't drink so much beer. No, no, don't
John Simon Sr. 35:29
cut back on that.
Cathy Paper 35:33
What would I tell my 20 year old self?
I think I think I would tell my 20 year old self to speak up a little bit more and to also, I think, have a little bit of confidence that it will all unfold the right way. I think I spent, oddly, spent some of my 20s wondering, What am I doing? Is this? I mean, John, I was an investment banker right out of college, you know. And no offense to investment bankers, but that was not the fit for me. So yeah, that's probably what I'd say the 20 year old self is, speak up and have some more faith in yourself that it will all work out and of course, surround yourself with good people, which I always did in my 20s. You know, I have my whole life, but maybe speak up a little bit more,
John Simon Sr. 36:29
right? Love.
Dina Simon 36:30
It. Awesome. Well, Kathy, anything else that you want our podcast listeners to take away from our time today?
Cathy Paper 36:37
I think just you know what? Keep keep having fun and keep listening. And I love this. The
whole generational thing is great,
John Simon Sr. 36:45
awesome. The podcast. Time goes pretty quickly. It
Dina Simon 36:49
does. It does well. Thank you for being on our podcast today. We really appreciate it and appreciate all that you bring to the world, and certainly to my life and my family's life. And thank you. You're the best. I would like to thank my good friend Kathy paper for joining us on the podcast today. I'll make sure in the show notes you know how to get in touch with her. She has a last name that she got to play on as well from a marketing perspective, just like me with my last name, Simon. So her company is rock paper star, and those of us that know her as a friend, we actually just call her paper. So paper, thanks for being on the podcast. As always, I think my father in law, John Simon, for the conversation and for CO hosting with me and until we meet again. Thanks. You.