We are excited to have Gregg Jackson on the podcast with us.
Gregg is a friend of John’s. They stay fit together by working out a few times a week.
Gregg went to the University of Dayton for his undergraduate and MBA degrees. He worked for GM, Delco Products in Ohio and then transferred to El Paso, TX, to set up manufacturing in Juarez, Mexico. He spent much of his career in El Paso, creating new business opportunities in Juarez.
Gregg is known to be entrepreneurial, inspirational, and one to give back and pay it forward! When Gregg and his wife Becky moved from El Paso to Dallas, he and their son, Ryan, started Acceleron Learning, a technology-based learning and development platform. They have a niche for working with prisons, social services, and in the education sector, teaching life skills.
Gregg and Becky have two children, Ryan and Kayla, and have been married for nearly 50 years! With much more to share, we will invite Gregg back for more episodes in the future!
Resources:
Acceleron Learning website
Transcript
Music. Welcome to Simon Says, inspire a podcast about life, leadership and building legacies. I'm John Simon, SR
Dina Simon 00:14
and I'm Dina Simon.
John Simon Sr. 00:16
Today, Greg Jackson is our guest, Greg, welcome to the podcast
Gregg Jackson 00:21
you're having me
John Simon Sr. 00:22
So a little background about Greg. He and I met about eight years ago, about three or four days a week, we work out together at the community workout center here in lantana, so we get to spend quite a bit of time not only chatting about current events, but also how we would fix certain things in the world, which it's great to talk about them, but we never seem to accomplish anything. So we would be great politicians. We at least talk about it. Greg, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your family,
Gregg Jackson 00:53
and you know, we live here in Texas now, and Becky and I had been married almost 50 years. We met right out of high school, and from Dayton, Ohio, my passion was automobiles. As a kid growing up, you know, I came from very middle class family, didn't have a whole lot. Had two great parents, though, and worked very hard. And by the time I was finishing high school, I'd make a decision on what I wanted to do professionally, and decided to go to college of course, and always loved cars. And General Motors was my favorite company, and so I went to the University of Dayton. And instead of studying engineering, I was, I was really an entrepreneur, I guess, from the word go is being a kid. But decided to study business. I got my undergraduate degree, my MBA there, and went to work for a local products division in Dayton, Ohio, and worked very hard, took on a lot of tough projects, very young. And so what happened was they decided, back in 1978 like suddenly, 1879 that they were going to go to Mexico and start opening up plants. Labor was very expensive. And so they saw the opportunity in Mexico, which, you know, back then, you know, it was probably 15, $18 an hour fully loaded. This has been, you know, over 40 years ago, of course, and Mexico was about $2 an hour fully loaded. So there was a big labor thing. So anyways, make a long story short, they selected four of us young guys who moved to El Paso Texas and community every day across the border. And whereas Mexico and we set up a couple of manufacturing operations over there, and we're only supposed to be there about a year, and to get it set up and turn it over to the Mexican nationals, but that didn't happen, and it was such a big success, they just kept bringing products down and kept expanding. So I was Materials Manager, and I had customs and purchasing and, you know, materials management within the plant and warehousing on the other side, and customer contact. So learned a great deal. Had an entrepreneurial background course working for my dad. He had a small business, and we had a great time. You know, for the first couple of years we were there, we pretty much left alone by the corporate veil in Dayton, Ohio, to do our thing. And it was like being an entrepreneur and having the resources of a huge company. And so we had a great time. We did some fantastic work. I learned a lot, and that that was my start professionally.
Dina Simon 03:14
Wow. What an amazing opportunity. So Young as well. Like you said, just all that you learned. How long were you down there?
Gregg Jackson 03:21
Well, I was in El Paso a total of 31 years. I worked for General Motors. Total of eight years. I had an entrepreneurial bug, and so I left on very good terms with General Motors and started my own companies in where is Mexico? So
John Simon Sr. 03:33
Greg, tell us a little bit about your son, Ryan, and your daughter Tayla, working,
Gregg Jackson 03:37
you know he, he runs the company Excel on learning, and he's doing quite well with that. You know, we're in the prison market teaching life skills in El Paso. I retired 35 years ago financially, and I then gave my time back to the community consulting and helping small businesses of all kinds. And when we moved from El Paso to hear Dallas area, that's where our son lived, my son asked me, you know what I wanted to do? I said, Well, I want to continue helping children and consulting and helping businesses. And he says, well, let's do this and with technology. So we started an online company teaching career skills, financial skills, legal schools skills and personal wellness skills. And it was about 200 videos over about 30 minutes long, covering a multitude of subjects. And we were fortunate to get into a couple 100 schools across the United States to get started. And then we hit our stride by getting introduced to the prison system in Texas. And then they asked us what we could do for them with their life skills program. So we decided to produce specific products for the prison market, which they were excited about. And so we got started in about 115 different prisons in Texas, and we're still in that market. We're still serving them. That was about eight years ago. And we're in other states. We're in Wyoming, we're in little bit in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, York, so also Louisiana. So, you know, we touch probably between 75 and 100,000 offenders a year, returning citizens as their call and hoping to impact their lives and help them, specifically in reentry. And that business is, is doing quite well. And so we've, we've got a niche,
John Simon Sr. 05:25
and in the prison, it's more of an entrepreneurial program that you have. We
Gregg Jackson 05:30
teach all life skills and re entry. But one of the products that we have is, you know, and I'll make this story very short, it is, they do a very good job in prison teaching vocational skills for the most part. And so when, when the returning citizens lead then come back into society, they generally have a skill that they wanted or they had one going in. The problem is there's very few employers who really want to hire these individuals, even though they have a skill set. And you know, the statistics are pretty clear. They don't have a job within, you know, 90 to 120 days when they come out, the probability of them returning back to doing something to eat is pretty high, and that will not probably be legal. So the key is, is getting them employed. Well, the issue is, is, you know, what are you doing? You have to still set no one will hire you. So we developed an entrepreneurial program, and that's about 30 hours, and it's in the prison. It's very popular. And, you know, we wrote this from not from a theoretical standpoint or an academic standpoint. We read it from boots on the ground, rubber meets the road, and it's been extremely successful, and a lot of individuals have went through it and love it, and have been employed on the outside. When they get out, it sounds like
John Simon Sr. 06:43
a great program. And as you say, you affect about like 75,000 inmates a year.
Gregg Jackson 06:50
No, you know, it varies depending on how the states utilize it. We're increasing our coverage throughout the United States, picking prisons. Some of the prisons use it for summer programming. Some use it for purely life skills and reentry. We have a product called the reentry roadmap, which is really a roadmap, and it prepares you getting out to for 40 known obstacles. And that's being studied by Rice University as to its effectiveness and recidivism. And you know, depending on how you measure recidivism and how what you include, you know, about 40% of the people that come out of prison will come back prison. And there's lots of reasons that that happens. Some of them because they can't get a job soon as they they have no directions, or they don't have a career, or they go back and you know, they're in the same group of people that they associated with that may have had influence on them doing something, you know, illegal, to put them in prison. So we try to head off those problems and have a working plan for them tactically to address that. And so the individuals that spin through it love it. Hopefully we're going to have some data here in another year or two that tells us exactly the effect of doing silent, yeah,
Dina Simon 08:01
that's awesome. Greg, I grew up in the staffing industry, and so that whole part about, you know, finding jobs for people, I totally understand that, because so many, you know, so many hiring restrictions for people that have anything on their background. And so finding employers that are willing to give people that re entry opportunity, it's, you know, it can be very limiting. So definitely understand that. But I agree with you. You know, if they aren't able to find jobs, I think is that you said, 90 to 100 days, then they're forced to maybe go back to old habits and then repeat, you know, some of those things. And so it's super important to find those employers that are willing to give these people that opportunity. And
Gregg Jackson 08:41
again, you know, prisons have a tough job. You know, historically, they've been set up to punish people. But what has happened, I think, and it's coming around. I think Texas is doing a real good job in moving towards this is rehabilitation and taking these individuals and understanding, you know, some of the issues and problems that brought them to prison, because, you know, you want to treat not the symptom but the problem, and help change that individual and let them flourish when they get out. And if you don't address some of the core issues that they have, you know, then you've punished them, but you haven't done much to help solve their problems. So that's that's where movement now is is going in terms of rehabilitation. And you know now what's happening is, because of technology, and our products are aligned with technology. Tablets in prison are very effective in terms of helping them, you know, utilize the time, for example, and their cell productively by being educated both or a vocational basis as well as skill set or life skills. So you know, things are getting better, maybe not as fast as we want them to, but we've clearly seen the last, really, five years, some some major advancement in trying to help them.
John Simon Sr. 09:57
I know you and I have talked about the program. Program you have many times while we've been working out, and I think it's interesting, and maybe you can talk a little bit about how the inmates actually administer the program. One of the biggest
Gregg Jackson 10:11
problems right now facing prisons are retaining help and getting people to work in the prison system. The prison system does not pay necessarily, very high, so it's hard to attract individuals outside, therapists, guards, people to come and work in the prison. So as a result of that, the education from being supported with teachers in the classroom has suffered. So one of the one of the things that we've done, and we've done extremely well, is basically, you know, you can have good teachers and bad teachers, and they impact the out, the outcome of you Learning about the subject matter. Technology is very efficient, and so in our modeling, what we have done, and we have taken the knowledge transfer and made that basically video based where they can listen to it. It's very consistent. It's very it's done very professionally. They can go back and look at it again. What we have done is we have taken the teacher, put them in a facilitating mode that allows them to actually get in the classroom and through exercises, meaning activities, those types of things, engage the student so that they can learn how to apply what they've learned. The problem with that is, again, you need teachers. So there is a model, and Texas has been pretty good with this model is using peer educators. And these are, these are offenders in prison who may have been teachers, they may be very charismatic, and they stand in and they are the teacher. They're the facilitator. Now they're not a therapist, but it allows the the inmates from the offenders, to have someone who can facilitate activities and answer discussion questions and those types of things. It's worked out quite well. It's free, and the labor is free, and there are some very talented individuals in prison, as you can imagine, just because you've committed a crime doesn't mean that, you know, you have a low IQ or you're uneducated. There's a lot of educated people in prison, and they're very good at what they what they do from a professional standpoint, so those people are utilized, and it's working out quite well, and saving, you know, the state a lot of money, and it helps with the problem of employment and finding people. And
Dina Simon 12:24
it gives those peer educators another skill that they have on their, you know, quote, unquote resume when they are released and and trying to find jobs. I love that I have a couple questions. So the life skills. I love the life skills, because, right, we all need life skills. And so I'd love to hear similar so it sounds like you're in a lot of schools. So are you in high schools, elementary schools? Talk to us a little bit about where acceleron is focused, in the school system,
Gregg Jackson 12:50
primarily. And I'll be very honest with you, we have not been that successful in the school system. And I'll tell you exactly why, because life skills are looked bad differently than math, reading and science, they're not required. And so the school systems, you know, will tell you they don't have the resources, the time or the ability to teach these things, which we respect and we understand the problem that I have with this. I'll cut off here a little bit on my get on the high horse. Here is that, you know, my grandchildren are the oldest town is seven, that she loves to play soccer, and we got to be soccer games. And you know, soccer is all when you play soccer, you play soccer. You're going all the time, and you see all these parents at the soccer games. And it's a wonderful sport. It's great group activity. But you know, parents do not teach their children life skills, and it's very disappointing. They will spend hours and hours on the soccer field, which is great, but when it comes home, when you when you bring them home, when that's where they get their homework, why not spend a little bit of time teaching them life skills? Teach in our curriculum, we started in kindergarten, talking about these subject matters all the way up through adulthood. And there's a lot of free stuff on the internet. You don't have to use our stuff, and it's really pretty good some of it. But you know, the problem is, is that we as adults, you know, and there's lots of reasons I think that adults don't teach your kids life skills. It's because maybe they got pretty bad life skills themselves, and they haven't been extremely successful. Maybe they were terrible money managers and they're embarrassed even to guide someone on on subject matters, necessarily they're not very good at but you know, unless we take an interest in our children and help them develop in life skills early on and educate them on these things, because the school is not going to do it. You can't live it up to the schools, right? You may get that at a private school, but you're not going to get that a public school system, necessarily. So that is the that is the challenge, and the parents that do take the time and teach their children these skill sets on this. Project Managers that we that we embrace, I think they're going to be more successful. They're going to study harder, they're going to be more successful in high school. They're going to pick out the right major in college, they're going to study the right thing in college, and they're going to get the right job. And you know, that's, that's the thing that we want from our children. We want them to be happy, safe and and healthy. And you know, unless we guide them and help them, they're not going to acquire those skills on their own, or when they do, it may be too late. Well,
John Simon Sr. 15:28
Greg, our podcast is, of course, life leadership and building legacies. And I think you have a great feel for leadership. I think you, you once said you think it's a born trait that you have. I
Gregg Jackson 15:40
think that it is, but I'd like it can be a learned trait, always wanting to be first in line at school, and I always wanted to lead whatever was going on, good or bad, what was was going on in high school, not that I got any real trouble. But, you know, I learned that I wanted to be a leader. I was more a leader than a follower. I was not really a very good follower. I always wanted to lead, but, you know, you to learn how to lead. You must follow and learn. And you know, that's one thing in general, motors that was extremely good. It was a very structural setting. And you know, you had bosses, and the bosses had bosses, and you weren't underling, and you worked your way up, and you wanted to respect that champion man, and you learn how to take worse. And you understood what good bosses were bad bosses. And I had them on both sides. You know, the most effective boss I ever had, really, I modeled much of my leadership. Adele was a guy really early on that I had, that he his leadership was basically, I'm going to tell you what I want you to do accomplish. I'm going to give you the resources to get that done, and I expect it to be done, and then I'm going to teach you a long way. And I found that to be enlightening. I thought it would be educational. And so that was the leadership spot style that I embraced and stuck with my entire career. Nice. I
John Simon Sr. 16:59
don't think you can beat that. One of the things you've always talked about is measuring different processes. I know in 92 when you developed the technology to plate the air conditioning components for Ford, one of the things you've always talked about is I always wanted to make the process better. And tell us a little bit about that.
Gregg Jackson 17:21
Well, I have a saying. The saying is, if I can measure it, I can improve it. And so I was relentless on quality and efficiency, which are two in manufacturing. Those two things are extremely important. One of my manufacturing plants, I had over about 300 people, and it was a very technical business. And you know, metal finishing is something that has many, many different processes, chemical, electrical, mechanical processes. And the ultimate thing is, is when the part comes off the end of the line, it needs to meet a certain quality and durability parameter, and then does and it's rejected. And you know, it can be very costly to the customer and to your company as well. So what I decided to do was to measure everything, and I mean everything. We measured over 100 different things in the process itself. We even measured temperature, in the plant humidity. We measured every possible thing you can measure. And once we had those measurements on everything, then we took those and redress those into a basically, I had my undergraduate degree. I had a double major in economics and finance, and then with an MBA, but I had a class called econometrics. And basically you have a dependent variable, which is, you know, the quality of the park, the rejects on the independent variables are all the things that impact that, 100 things. And stuck that into a model and a mathematical model, and out came about five or six very, very important pieces of information that allow our quality to be virtually perfect, which is unheard of in the mental fishing melts and machine business, and so Ford Motor Company was very happy. But the point of this is, is that if you can measure, you can improve it.
Dina Simon 19:10
Yeah, absolutely. And Greg, just a very quick story, so I don't know how much John has talked about like his kids, but his son, Rich, who I'm married to, is a chemist and works for a paint company. And I had a car, like, maybe 10 years ago, I had a car that, and John, you were in town, and you told rich, you're like, tell Dina to stop putting stuff like, on her car when she's like, opening the trunk because it had scratches all over it. And we were like, I'm not doing that. And the the front of the car literally looked like we had a cat living in the garage. There were just all these scratches. So anytime sand or anything hit the front of the car, it was taking off the paint. So I went to the dealership and said, you know, obviously there's a problem here. And enrich I just shared who my husband was, because he already knew exactly what had happened based as. Of what you're talking about, just because of the processes and what you know, it was pretty funny, because that dealership, they brought in, like there was 13 people that took that took a look at my car, and I left it with them. But they brought in regional people, and, well, you can probably imagine what happened. But they, they didn't cure the paint long enough when it was on the line. And so my car was one of possibly many cars that had that issue. So it was just pretty funny, because of watching them react and respond, and rich basically said to the dealership, I know exactly what's happened, but I'm not going to tell you. You guys have to figure it out.
John Simon Sr. 20:37
The next thing we should, I think, chat a little bit about, is your legacy, Greg, I think you're building a great one for your family and also some of the companies that you have worked with. I know you told me about the music school that you spent quite a bit of time on working with. Why don't you talk a little bit about that? All right? You know, legacy.
Gregg Jackson 20:57
We all have legacies, and you know, I've been very blessed to have been afforded the opportunity to do a lot of super interesting projects. And my main purpose in life, and it has been over the last 30 years, is to give back and transfer the knowledge that I have to those that seek it or need it or want it. And so over the last, you know, 25 years, almost 30 years, I've consulted free of charge many companies and helping doctors and attorneys and landscape people or sign companies, which was another venture I had in Mexico that resulted into a major sign manufacturing company in war as Mexico. But that, I think, is the legacy, is that what you want to do is set up a family unit that gives back and helps and understands that people sometimes get a bad break. And you know, I like helping people who like to help themselves. I think that's important. I think that you can waste your time, unfortunately, on people who don't want to try to help themselves. That's a requirement that that I have mandated. But there's a lot of deserving people out there help. And you don't have to necessarily be money. It can be your time. It can be a lot of different things that you can give and and we all have the ability to give at some level, even if it's time, you know, to help people. But one of the more recent stories of helping is very short. I like building guitars, and I don't play, by the way, should I build guitars? Go figure that out. But one of the things I did is I built a guitar and I and I decided to take music lessons, or at least I thought I did. And there was this little farm down syndrome with water from where we lived that had a yellow piano in the freight art and I asked my wife, I said, Yeah, are you aware of any music schools? She says, Well, I think that place teaches music. I said, Though there's, there's no sign in front of it. And I went in two or three different times, and nobody was front desk, and there was like a madhouse, and it was just a very destructive atmosphere from a business perspective. So I left my name a number. Three months go by, and I didn't hear anything, and I saw a lot of interest in taking lessons, but the phone rang. I was this lady that owned a music school, and she said she was following up with me, and I got very abrupt with her, and I said, you know, I don't understand your business model. You don't have anybody at the front desk. You know, people are running all over the place. It takes, you know, I was signed out in front of a company, you know, takes you three months to call people back. I said, I don't understand, how do you stay in business? And I really just, I mean, I really started chewing on her, you know. And finally she got to the point she says, you know? She says, I'm just a musician. She says, I really don't have any business background. And I said, You know what, I'm going to adopt you. And she says, What are you seeing? And I said, I'm going to adopt you and your business. And I said, we're going to turn this thing around. And she says, Well, I don't really have any money to pay. And I said, you're not paying me a dime. I said, I work for free. I said, so it's going to be very difficult for you to fire me. And she thought that was pretty funny. Well, at the time, she had about 300 students, believe it or not, she had about 15 or 16 teachers, and it was was doing pretty well with it. And so to make a very long story short, within 18 months, I turned that business around, got her built a new building, put her in that building, did all the long package, you know, with the SBA and all the loan requirements to put the developer in, the builder designed the building, put her in there, and she is now grown to about 1200 students in a period less than about two years. Wow. Super successful. Very appreciative. The business of getting ready to expand again. And I'd never charged a dime, and I spent a lot of my personal time, but the satisfaction of helping someone who who wants to succeed excites me. And, you know, I'm willing to give up myself and my knowledge anytime to help people achieve that.
John Simon Sr. 24:54
And what a great legacy.
Dina Simon 24:56
Exactly, that's extraordinary. And that's exactly right, John, I was gonna say that so. What an amazing legacy. And I know you probably have more of those stories, but you just helped her out in growing her business, her business acumen, all of that to serve more kids and teach more and hire more people. And so think of you know how many 12, 1200 times x as far as how many people you've impacted. And so what an amazing piece of your legacy. Absolutely great
Gregg Jackson 25:23
thing is, as you know, at least other things, and you know how they're they have a theater, they have the visual arts, and they have music lessons. And so we learned all, I learned all about those things. And so what we've done now is we're developing a product, actually from the prison system, and that will include those three things on restored injustice. So this is a new program we're working on. So, you know, good things lead to good things nice.
John Simon Sr. 25:49
You know, one of the things I often think about Greg, because we went through this back in 2020, is, I bet you, covid had a real effect on the music business, especially if they were accustomed to having the teacher and the pupil all in the same room at the same time,
Gregg Jackson 26:05
yeah. Well, I was devastating, but what we did in 48 hours, we went to zoom and gave music lessons over zoom and never missed a beat. That's a good way to
Dina Simon 26:17
put it right, right. Never missed a beat, exactly. Well, yeah. And so that was so hard for all of those music schools and all of our kids that were in music and elementary, middle school, high school, everybody had to pivot that way. So as far as joining us on life, leadership and building legacies, we've talked a little bit about all is there anything as you were thinking through questions that your topics that you wanted to make sure that we covered for our podcast listeners. Is there anything that you want to share just like, you know, God
Gregg Jackson 26:48
lost me the other day. He said, You know, if you were giving yourself advice back today, as if you were 20 years old, what advice would you give yourself, right? And I was thinking about that. And I think that from my personal standpoint, I think having having a little bit more compassion for people's situation, and taking the time to to listen to people and to think through some of the decisions that you make, I think when you're young, or, you know, you're ready to, you know, shoot fire from the globe. And I think if I had to do over again, I think I would have, I would say, you know, slow up a little bit, and think about how you're impacting people's lives, and what you say and what you do, and the decisions that you make. Not that I did anything bad. But I can remember situations that you know, particularly people who have children, when I didn't have any children, and I had employees that had problems at home with, you know, children, whatever, I was probably not, not as one to that as I am today, of having children and grandchildren. So I think when you're young, I think you just need to temper that a little bit, and that's with maturity. I think a lot of that comes with maturity, but that'd be the advice I would give myself.
John Simon Sr. 28:10
Well, you finding out that a lot more compassion when you have grandchildren. Also,
Gregg Jackson 28:15
yes, absolutely, yes. And patience,
Dina Simon 28:19
and patience, yes, yeah, no, I agree. I think that when you are early, starting out, and I agree with you, you know, I know as a leader, also just being female, I had, I had many female leaders that would, you know, say, hey, suck it up. I had to do it. You have to do it too. Figure, you know, figure out how to balance it all. As far as being a working mom, and so I do often reflect back now saying, Gosh, I wish I would have known some of some of what I know now when I was 20, because it would have made life a lot easier. But a lot of that does come with maturity.
Gregg Jackson 28:50
Wow. There's no instruction manuals with these children when they come out of the womb. There is no so you know, to figure it out of your own or duplicate what your parents did of you, or a little bit of both, but that's the life's journey.
Dina Simon 29:04
Yes, it is.
John Simon Sr. 29:07
So Greg, I know you have a lot of other interests, and I think what I'd like to do is we'll probably end this conversation right now, but I'd love to have you back, because you've done a lot of work in restoring vehicles, race cars with Richard Petty, Jeff Gordon and Alan sir. You had an entry in a brickyard 400 you raced a car in the Bonneville Salt Flats. And you also made a movie in 2009 about the border. And I think that they would be some great topics to bring you back for another interview for our podcast. Well,
Gregg Jackson 29:41
I appreciate that, and I've enjoyed this. And you know, as I told John, you know, I don't really like talking about myself, but if it's some way inspires or helps other people, I'm all for that, and that's the reason I'm doing this
John Simon Sr. 29:54
nice, well. And the other, the other teaser I'm going to throw out there is in 19. 74 how you and Becky encountered a UFO when you were living in Ohio. So I want everybody to think a little bit about that, and you tell a great story about it.
Gregg Jackson 30:09
Well, I will tell you this. And this is a heads up. This really happened. I know what I saw. My wife knew what she saw. It was an amazing thing, and it sticks in my mind every single day, what I saw, Wow,
John Simon Sr. 30:22
and there was no alcohol involved.
Gregg Jackson 30:26
You know what? It's hard to believe. But no, there wasn't.
Dina Simon 30:31
Oh my gosh. I can't wait to hear the story. Thank you so much for joining us. I know that you and John have known each other for years, and he's been sharing what we're up to in doing this podcast and then just a super fun passion project for both of us to bring friends, family and business acquaintances and some people that we don't even know that are interested in, as you said, if you can just inspire somebody you know in sharing your story. So thank you, Greg Jackson, so much for being a part of our podcast. Greg has said that he's been very blessed, but I believe that he worked very hard for everything that he's achieved and will continue to achieve in his future. I love that he is focused on giving back and paying it forward now in life, that is just a beautiful quality. Check out acceleron Learning, and we will have a link to it in the show notes. His bio is very vast, so we will have him come back on to talk about other things in the future. As always, I thank my father in law, John Simon, for CO hosting with me and for bringing his good friend Greg to the podcast. Until next time. Thank you. You