We are so excited to have Sarah Hoops join us! Her energy will inspire you! Sarah Hoops is the founder of Voices in Technology, a community committed to amplifying underrepresented voices and driving inclusivity of women in the tech industry.
Through this initiative, Sarah works to break down barriers, ensuring that diverse perspectives shape the future of technology, from development to leadership. In her role at Inspire 11, where she drives business development, Sarah combines her passion for diversity with the company’s mission to create innovative, human-centered solutions.
By aligning her efforts with both Voices in Technology and Inspire11, Sarah is dedicated to fostering inclusive growth strategies that not only drive business success but also promote positive societal impact within the tech world.
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Meet Sarah on LinkedIn
Transcript
John 0:06
Welcome to Simon Says Inspire, a podcast about life, leadership and building legacies. I'm John Simon, SR and I'm Dina Simon. Our guest today is Sarah Hoops. Sarah is the founder of Voices in Technology, a community committed to amplifying underrepresented voices, driving inclusivity of women in the tech industry. Sarah, welcome to our podcast. Thank you. Why don't you take a minute or two and tell our audience a little bit about maybe where you live and what you like to do in your spare time? Oh, sure. I live in Chanhassen, Minnesota, which I love, because I feel like I'm got the city life on one side of me and the rural country girl life on the other side of me. So, we've been here for a little over 10 years. Spare time. I have a well, full time. I do have a husband and two kids, but when not with them. You know, when I can. And our boys are both in elementary school together. We've got a third grader and a kindergartner, and as a family, we love to downhill ski together. We are a dirt bike family, and I ride a horse whenever I can. Yeah, so you're very busy with those kids, and I saw you over this weekend and you were headed out skiing. Yes, I love it. Great time. Yeah. So why don't you tell us a little bit about your voices in technology? Yeah. So you know, as your experiences build up over time, you start to realize what was something that I wish I would have had for myself, that I would like to give to others, or at least, that's how I took it,
Sarah 1:53
After a particularly traumatic experience and taking some time to heal from that, I decided to come back and use that to hopefully protect or prevent other women from having to go through anything similar. So I created a safe space, a little community where we can come together every so often throughout the year, about three to five events, and just talk about pretty vulnerable topics. What I have found is if we can start the conversation and bring people together, a lot of times, other people will start to speak up too. And that's that very first step in building confidence and just kind of finding yourself and finding your people. So that's what Voices in Tech has represented, that kind of the tip of the funnel, if you will, like, if I'm going to get involved and start building a network, but I'm really insecure about something. Where do I start? And I would want people to think of Voices in Technology, nice. And when you say technology, what, typically, you know what? People come probably from all walks of life, but what is like? What is an ideal candidate to be part of Voices in Technology? You know, I feel like every job these days is technology, right? So it's pretty vague, intentionally, but really anybody in the workforce, I think any professional services. We've had a couple nurses come. We've had other people who are yoga instructors who come. But really women, from those stepping into their career, all the way to those who have been tenured at a company for two, three decades and are saying, I need to find a supportive network. And truly, it's kind of like, come on in where you're at. And my goal is to help find these people and connect them to other people that are like minded, or help them find another group to be a part of, introduce them to somebody that I think they could connect with, and just kind of help them build that support stream outside of Voices in Tech.
Dina 3:44
Nice and do you, I don't know much about it. Do you have events and stuff that you do, like, I think you said a couple of year? Yeah, we do a minimum of three, a maximum of five, is what we've had capacity for. Most of them are closed door, smaller. We cap it at about 25 women. And that is just to keep it kind of closed off. We don't want to coming because then you have to get a microphone, which I'm even terrified talking to a microphone, and just, you know, keeping it close knit. And I always pull in some couches and make it kind of cozy, so it doesn't feel like you're sitting in a boardroom or anything, but really making people feel welcome. Say, Hey, you're you've made it. Congrats.
John 4:25
Is the tech industry a male dominated industry? Absolutely. Oh my goodness, yeah, I've been out of the workforce for over 20 years, so I, I don't know what has happened, because, you know what I was working you know, everyone talked about the glass ceiling back back then where, you know, women had trouble, you know, breaking the glass ceiling.
Sarah 4:46
I hope that's not a problem anymore, that it has to be better than it was back in the 80s and 90s. I would imagine it is. But I can't weigh into back then too much. But, yeah, I.
Think, you know it's getting better. We all know we need different perspectives to help businesses see it from different angles and different users, but as it gets higher up into different levels, there's still that glass ceiling. I think I had read an article, and it might have been, think it was Harvard Business Journal. I'll have to triple check that, but I think it said that it's still only 11% of the C suite is women, and that's just totally tilted. It should be even, because we need to represent far more users. It's not just men using technology. So it's we've got a long way to go. Yeah, I think so too. And just bringing people together, like you said, to have these conversations and support each other and lift each other up, regardless of industry. But yeah, technology is kind of vague, as you talked about. So talk maybe a little bit about your career leading up to this, and then love for you to share a new passion. Maybe not a new passion, but what you guys are up to. Yeah, leading up to it, you know, I went, I went to St Cloud State University. Had a great time. Went in thinking I was going to go into medical, and found out I do not have the chemistry and the mathematician side of me at all that was necessary to go that route. But I really enjoyed making something that people got to engage with. So the marketing side came to me. So went into marketing. That got me into advertising. Then I was in digital advertising, which opened my eyes to what's possible with code and, kind of the tech side. And then got into custom development, and that then gets into digital and, you know, technology consulting. So it's, it's been a really fun career. There's always something new. It's never the same. And I've never been on a client side. I've always been on the service side, which is make, you know, it makes it even more eye opening to see the differences between medium sized business and enterprises. So I've enjoyed getting to know all different facets of organizations and industries. But still, there's something different about the way women are able to show up. So with that, I just feel like I'm pretty understanding, and I get to understand it from leaders perspectives and what they're up against, what women coming out of college and going into their careers are up against. So I would like to continue growing Voices in Tech in three different ways, where I think it first starts within ourselves. We have to build our confidence, we have to understand our own worth, because once we do that, we can speak up, then we can help our peers. We can go have those tough conversations with our leaders, open that net, and then from there, over and over, that ripple effect is going to change the industry. So really getting to know different types of groups in the Minneapolis area, so I can keep pulling people in and dispersing them in the right spots, finding great mentors and great leaders who want to help somebody and bring somebody under their wing. It's just all about building a big connection. I don't think people have to profit from it all the time, because I think it's just such a give back thing that we can all do with, with our time, yeah. And so I really champion that, going into different groups and say, Hey, let's work together. It, yeah, it's like the whole mentorship piece and the ripple effect, absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I look for what you do for us, you know, being able to kind of give us your expertise and tell us, like you told me, there's grants out there that might help with this, absolutely, it was so helpful. Yeah, so are you ready to share your other potential, like just, you've got lots of animals, and it's just some passions. And I would say my dream project, my absolute dream goal. If I did it, I would hit the retirement lottery, in a sense, because work would not feel like work.
I would love to open a retreat space where we can have, specifically women's retreats can be hosted there, and just provide a space for people to come, detach from the city, detach from all other aspects of life, and just hit that reset, be in nature. So we're kind of in the very early stages of planning a retreat space out in western Minnesota where people can come out, whether it's just a group of women who want to connect, or different networks, or even leadership teams could come. My favorite activity that I've dreamed up of would be having donkeys and making some senior leaders try to do a relay race with them. Nice. You know, there's just so many metaphors there about, you know, how you speak to donkeys and you gotta move the ass and stubbornness. And it's just such a lesson in life and them that I think more people should encounter.
Dina 9:44
John, I think I could see your leadership team doing that right? Yeah, there may be a few people that when it's all over, they're not going to like that
John 9:55
well, because the truth is going to come out. Exactly isn't that?
Sarah 10:00
Funny, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's gonna take the right people, but I just think the more I spend time with genuine people, I see how I can carry that into all facets of my life, and it just makes you feel worthwhile, and I want to be able to give that space to other people. Yeah, I love that, and but you do, even though this is something that may happen down the line, and you're working on some of that and ideating and doing some things behind the scenes. You do have a lot of animals, do you not?
We currently just have four. Okay, we have two rescue dogs, a sheep and a horse, which is pretty random, but it's a good story for how
and yeah, how did, how did you get the sheep? I had walked into a county fair to help some high school girls with their showing of their horses, and they had just gotten done with the run, and it didn't go too well, and they were pretty upset about it, and one of the horses had gone lame, so it was really sad day, but they're like, let's go look at the baby goats and just hug them for a little bit. And then I ended up buying in a couple goats, and then she tossed in a sheep. Turns out the sheep is much more friendly the goats. So the goats are now gone, but the sheep is forever a part of our life. And where is the sheep? He hangs out with the horse just down the road and in Chanhassen. Nice, nice. I love it. And do you have to go every day to take care of the sheep? Or is there somebody that takes care of the sheep with the horse? He's boarded so he he gets friends that visit every day. I try and put one at least twice a week. That's kind of my meditation time just to be outside. That's your therapy right there. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, is he excited to see you when you show up? He is. He's very noisy. He'll bop you. I mean, it's you think of using toddlers whining to get attention. Yeah, he does, but he's a happy sheep. He frolics around and chases after you, and he's kind of like a dog. I wish I knew you earlier, because our dog, Posh is part Border Collie, and one of my regrets was when she was young, as I never got her out to visit hang out with sheep, because she definitely is that herder, yeah, which a fun dynamic, yeah, yeah. Sarah, do you live in an area where you could have, like, chickens if you wanted to, we could have chickens here, yes, but I don't. Ironically, I have kind of a fear of birds.
Okay, big horse, no problem. Birds, no, they're a little unpredictable for me. So life leadership and building legacies, and legacies is what we are doing. You know, on a day to day basis, it's not just the big thing we do at the end. So talk to us a little bit just leadership. I mean, you've talked a lot about, like you stepping up and leading anything else on, just like great leaders and mentors that you've had that that like, come to mind, absolutely, yeah, I think I mean leadership. What I've learned even in this past year, it has nothing to do with your title. It has everything to do with how you show up, with yourself and other people. And I was really hard on myself for a while, wanting that promotion, wanting to get to that next level, being told, you know, you just got to do this thing, and then you got to do that, you know, all these things. And then I realized I don't have to wait like this, doesn't you don't have to hit that next, you know, ladder rung in order for you to get to that leadership. You can just create that with what you have with that. I've had some great leaders and some really terrible leaders around me. I think probably one of the more profound ones was I had, you know, a male manager who was older and absolutely toxic as heck in all different ways, very discriminatory and all of that. And that kind of put a sour taste in my mouth. You know, I think PTSD can feel, you know, you start to feel that kind of well up. And then I went to a different company and had the same demographic of a leader, and he was fantastic, and he will forever be part of my healing journey in saying like, Hey, that was a bad person and a bad experience. But it's not all people, and I've learned to see that there are so many great men who want just as much inclusion as as we do, and I think that's super powerful. So I always try to tell people, don't, you know, don't read a book by its cover. But really try to get to know those people. If you have a pit in your stomach, maybe ask some more questions or ask somebody else who knows that person. But try to really get to know the people around you and you also, you learn something from bad leaders, also how not to treat people. Yes, yeah, yes, yeah. And so often you realize it's not even about them. Usually it's something going on or it's not even about ourselves. It's usually something going on in their lives that bring that forward at work, unfortunately, yeah, and unfortunately or fortunately for those of us that do leadership
Dina 15:00
training, there is such a lack right of like, just great examples, good examples of leadership. And you are so you're so predispositioned based on the environment that you've grown up in, like you said. So the good news is you got to leave that bad leader and find another good leader to know that it can be out there. But that's really, you know, it's part of why John and I do this podcast because I was super blessed to have great leadership in him and the leadership team that was around me when I was in my early 20s, certainly I, as I moved on in my career, I had one or two not so fantastic bosses. We all have that. But so many of the stories of you know, the end suit young professionals these days getting into situations where they don't have good or great leadership in front of them because of those just bad examples and and and, and not enough training and mentorship on how to get you know how to get better.
Sarah 15:55
Yes, and I've heard of these programs. I'd never been able to be a part of one, but where it's almost like, oh my gosh, you might know what it's called, where the leader, who's at the top has a mentor from a lower level in the organizational side, and it's almost like that way they're they're being held accountable, nice, they're getting a view of what things look like at that different level. And I thought that's just such a cool way to connect with leaders and build leaders up and to keep it kind of a humbling relationship. I would love to know how that works out, and if anybody has been a part of that. Yeah, and
John 16:34
I know one of the things I used to do when I ran a business, every once in a while, I would just go to a department and want to spend a day with one of the people in the department and find out what they do and why they do it and and say, you know, do you think you have a better way? Don't do it because it's always been done that way. Let's try to find a better way, a new way, to do it, which will end up making us all more productive. And people love that, that they could share with a boss, you know, what their what their thoughts were and and what would make them a better, a better employee for the organization also,
Sarah 17:10
Yeah, isn't it a lot like having little kids, like, when I back to preschool age and you're like, can you show me how you put your shoes on? Can you show me? No, it's just that soft curiosity that just makes it happen exactly.
Dina 17:28
Oh my gosh. And John was always known for doing his walkabouts and really connecting with the employees.
Sarah 17:33
That's so cool. Good for you. Have you had any employees that have now since grown in their careers, that have reached back out and reminisced on their visits from you.
John 17:42
Oh, yeah, yeah. I still talk to quite a few the, you know, the people that ran the sales department and accounting departments and our maintenance department. And, yeah, I mean, they, they, the one thing I always used to talk to them about whenever we would have meetings is, I, don't need you to come to me with problems. I need you to come to me with solutions. Because if I have to answer everything, I don't know why. I need you there. So let's you know, come to me with solutions. We'll talk about them, and we may tweak them a little bit, but I always wanted them to run their department as if it was their own business and treat their employees like they were there, his, his or her employees. And I think that was a really good way to run an organization. Yeah, definitely.
Sarah 18:32
I just heard a speaker here in Minneapolis, Nancy Lyons, if anybody knows her, and she did a whole thing on if you are going to complain, which we all need to vent. It's okay, it's healthy, but there has to be at least one solution that's coming along with that. And I thought that is so true, and it's just a slight tweak, because we all complain, right? But that's just a slight tweak that we can shift and make such a change.
Dina 18:59
It's just absolutely right, just the problem solving and and then it teaches others to do the same and and be proactive and coming up with solutions. Yes, so from, and you probably do some of this, but if you were to, you know, tell your 20 year old self something, what would you tell yourself.
Sarah 19:19
I am in control of my own destiny. And there might be people who kind of, you know, think of pinball, who kind of bonky around along the way. But truly, if there's something we want, we can build the relationships to learn how to get there. We can find the people who want to do this with us. We can get the invitation to work at a certain company, or whatever it could be. But truly, if we believe we're worthy of it, we can, we can make it happen.
Dina 19:46
So your presence is so lovely, just warm, genuine. You're a people connectors everything that you've talked about and what, but you just when you're when you're in your presence. I know that you're like, ooh.
How could I connect these people? And it's not in just that, like, over networking situation. It's truly like, Hey, if you're ready, or when you're ready, I'd like to make this introduction like, you've given me a lot of those conversations. So very well connected, but on purpose, and I love that. So that's a huge superpower. And then super fun, innovative, right? And so innovative. And that creativity piece that you've talked about, which is super fun and so love that, that's what you would tell your 20 year old self. So great advice. And then how like, from a reflective perspective on like, where you're at today, what were some of the things that got you to where you are today, to know that you can lean into your superpowers.
Sarah 20:45
Honestly, I don't think I've had a lot of great experiences. I think it's been built on a lot of resilience. It is right, like we can sit there and do poor me, but I just thought, you know, I don't want that to happen again, so I'm going to do it a little different this time, and that builds over time. And I think just seeing a number of women, I think even our collective group, you just start to realize everyone kind of feels that way once in a while. Yeah, but the power of resiliency, though, is really interesting, because everybody has different levels of resiliency, and then what do they need to be able to be pulled up from their bootstraps and the community around them and all of that that's that is an interesting.
John 21:27
Look how great it is for the the group of ladies that you have and so that you can lean on each other and learn from each other and experiment about, you know, life and jobs, and not everybody has that opportunity, right?
Sarah 21:46
I know, or that we have just a very precious group. I don't know. Jen is a miracle worker. It's the best matchmaking I've ever experienced.
But I look at it and you know, walking in on day one, I was intimidated. I'm listening to all these wonderful women introduce themselves, thinking, oh my gosh, I shouldn't be here. And I realized more than ever, we've all helped each other like we're all very much just normal humans trying to figure it out. And I I think that's just such a gift. So if you get to be part of companies or part of groups of people that recognize that we're all just humans.
Dina 22:24
Yeah, that is such a gift.
John 22:26
And there's a lot of there's a lot of help and experience out there that you can foster and learn from.
Sarah 22:32
Yeah, I have a question for each of you, what was a very hard lesson you learned in your career? How did it shift the way you did things following that event?
John 22:45
You know, one of the one of the ones that I had initially, I wanted everyone to like me, and I learned quickly that I needed them to respect me, not to like me, because you're gonna have to make decisions at times when you run an organization of four to 500 people that not everyone's going to like that. The fact of it is, if they respect me and a decision that I made, that's all it takes. That to be liked is not important, yeah, I would imagine some trust comes in there as well. Well, yeah, because you know, when you run an organization, you have those to do share responsibility for those people, because they're they're employees, and their life and families depend on it.
Dina 23:26
Love that John and I, I'm sure that part of me just growing up working with John as well, similar like I so I agree. I don't, I'm it's not a popularity contest. You know, if I have a business or department to run. I certainly want the respect and people getting along, but there are tough decisions that need to be made. I think that where I saw most of my like critical growth was like kind of two things, learning as a leader, to meet people where they're at,
so how to see where they're at from, like, a development level, and then how do I lean in to help them get what they need to keep moving forward? And so go kind of slow to go fast with people, like, really understanding where are they at, and how do I help them, as a leader, get them to the next step? So that was a big learning curve for me, because, and there were people that, once I kind of learned that, that I wanted to go back and say, Oh, I apologize. Like maybe I wasn't the best leader until I learned these skills, the other would be really, truly, truly, truly, actively listening, yes, because I am a high DI in disc and fast charging, like always moving and so really being able to sit and listen, to understand. It took me some practice to really get get good at that, and didn't know if I would be able to get good at it just based on, you know, how fast I move. And so those are probably two, two of mine.
Sarah 24:55
Imagine how amazing it would be if they taught these things in junior and senior class.Is of high school, right? Oh, my God.
Dina 25:03
So the Blanchard organization that I was fortunate to go through a lot of training on when I was in my early leadership years. They actually have a youth based self leadership. They're on a mission to have like 100,000 children go through it in like that high school kind of ages. Thank you for reminding me on that I need to keep pushing that out. But yeah, like we don't learn these things in high school or even college credits unless it's, you know, specific to a business degree or something that we're going after, and it's just so important.
Sarah 25:34
Yeah, I feel like when I look at leaders, good leaders, who really do have the respect and the trust of their colleagues.
Dina 26:02
right?
Sarah 26:19
If I could pick what my legacy is, I think, just being a genuine helper and just knowing that anybody can come to me and I will do my best to help them if I genuinely can. And I think that should just be how people treat each other in general. It doesn't take money and a ton of resources to be able to help people. So I think that's just if I could be known as something, it would be Sarah as a helper.
John 26:45
Now, it gets back to the respect, and then you want people to treat you the way that you want to treat them, and everybody you know, it's a much happier environment whenever you have that. Yeah, feels good, right?
Dina 27:00
It does well, but Sarah, it doesn't come natural to everybody. And so again, it is your superpower. It definitely is who you are. I mean, that's how all I've known you to be, and in the short months that I've known you, so love that, and I can only imagine that it will just continue to grow, since that is what you want your legacy to be and just in that really positive, genuine way, as you said. And so it is truly a superpower. And just love that. And your children are gonna witness, you know, growing up within your environment and seeing that, and so that, that's the legacy as well. And you had, you know, you had asked us this question, or asked John this question, I'm sure that you've had people that you've touched along the way that have come back to you and said, Hey, Sarah, like you made this connection, or you helped me through a situation, and that that speaks to your legacy. About, you know, that ripple effect?
Sarah 27:55
Yes, I it's starting to catch on through the Voices in Technology thing, and it's just, man, it feels so good to see that somebody was like, I did not know that I could go nail that job interview, but because I had some people to talk through, you know, whatever, and to see them happy and feel good about themselves, and to know I had maybe just a fraction of a percentage of involvement in that, I love it.
Dina 28:17
That's amazing. Great. Yeah, super rewarding. Is there anything else that you wanted our podcast to know about you?
Sarah 28:25
This was my first podcast.
Dina 28:28
Well, you did awesome. Yeah? Little, little shaky in the beginning, but that's Oh, super, super you weren't shaky. Well, if you were shaky, we didn't notice it. Oh, gosh no, not at all.
Sarah 28:40
It's fun to know that you both care enough to hear other people's stories as well. I think both of you have really inspirational stories. So to keep keep it going is so cool, and to document it all is the best.
Dina 28:53
Yeah, it's super fun. Well, you're welcome, but it is. It's been such a fun passion project for us, and you will be number 44 so we've had John, it seems like we kind of just started, even though we've had 44 conversations, yeah, and it just, it's been so much fun for us. So you've got, you know, the generational piece, you've got the family piece that I am a former employee of John. So, I mean, there's just all the different dynamics and some similar perspectives, obviously, but then some differences, and it's just been super, super fun.
John 29:24
And I love taking the podcast on the road. I've done three on the road, one at the Minnesota State Fair, which is one of my favorite places to go. Another was in Hawaii when my granddaughter went to college there, and the other one was Rich and I did a jeep road trip, and we went through Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and we just had a great time. And I would just go up to people and start talking to them. And it's amazing how many people will share their stories with you if you ask nicely.
Sarah 29:54
Isn't that true? I think people have so much to share, right? I feel like you should get one of those benches with your name or your podcast name on it at the State Fairgrounds, and that's where you park.
Dina 30:07
Yeah. So A, those are super expensive. And B, I don't think they're doing them anymore. I heard that they so we do Rich has a brick like in by the grandstand, but I heard something about the benches that they're not doing anymore, because they remove the benches dirt when it's not fair to time, and they have to store them. And they just have so many now that they because they try to probably keep those ones in nice condition, because if they're in memory or honor of somebody, but yeah, so I don't, I think it's too late.
John 30:40
If you have an opportunity listen to the state fair one, because we talk to truck drivers and teachers and just a great group of people. Yeah, super fun. Well, maybe next one, or a future one can be at the retreat center with we'll have Lambo join us.
Dina 30:57
I love it is that the name Lambo? Yes, did the kids get to name them? They had a hand in it? Yeah, I bet, I bet, love that. Well, Sarah, it's been an honor to have you on the podcast, so thank you for just being willing to lean in as well, and hopefully it's your first of many podcast interviews.
Sarah 31:15
Well, thank you so much for the opportunity. It was fun, great talking with you.
Dina 31:22
I would like to thank Sarah hoops, the founder of Voices in Technology, and a member of my amazing collective group, for joining us on the podcast. She truly is just this amazing human that leans in with trying to connect people and make sure that people are moving along to make the world a better place, and just so excited to know her and continue to watch and see what she does. So thank you, Sarah. I'd like to thank my father in law, as always, for co-hosting the podcast with me and Simon Says, Inspire is a proud member of the C-Suite radio, and until we talk again.
Welcome to Simon Says Inspire, a podcast about life, leadership and building legacies. I'm John Simon, SR and I'm Dina Simon. Our guest today is Sarah Hoops. Sarah is the founder of Voices in Technology, a community committed to amplifying underrepresented voices, driving inclusivity of women in the tech industry. Sarah, welcome to our podcast. Thank you. Why don't you take a minute or two and tell our audience a little bit about maybe where you live and what you like to do in your spare time? Oh, sure. I live in Chanhassen, Minnesota, which I love, because I feel like I'm got the city life on one side of me and the rural country girl life on the other side of me. So, we've been here for a little over 10 years. Spare time. I have a well, full time. I do have a husband and two kids, but when not with them. You know, when I can. And our boys are both in elementary school together. We've got a third grader and a kindergartner, and as a family, we love to downhill ski together. We are a dirt bike family, and I ride a horse whenever I can. Yeah, so you're very busy with those kids, and I saw you over this weekend and you were headed out skiing. Yes, I love it. Great time. Yeah. So why don't you tell us a little bit about your voices in technology? Yeah. So you know, as your experiences build up over time, you start to realize what was something that I wish I would have had for myself, that I would like to give to others, or at least, that's how I took it,
Sarah 1:53
After a particularly traumatic experience and taking some time to heal from that, I decided to come back and use that to hopefully protect or prevent other women from having to go through anything similar. So I created a safe space, a little community where we can come together every so often throughout the year, about three to five events, and just talk about pretty vulnerable topics. What I have found is if we can start the conversation and bring people together, a lot of times, other people will start to speak up too. And that's that very first step in building confidence and just kind of finding yourself and finding your people. So that's what Voices in Tech has represented, that kind of the tip of the funnel, if you will, like, if I'm going to get involved and start building a network, but I'm really insecure about something. Where do I start? And I would want people to think of Voices in Technology, nice. And when you say technology, what, typically, you know what? People come probably from all walks of life, but what is like? What is an ideal candidate to be part of Voices in Technology? You know, I feel like every job these days is technology, right? So it's pretty vague, intentionally, but really anybody in the workforce, I think any professional services. We've had a couple nurses come. We've had other people who are yoga instructors who come. But really women, from those stepping into their career, all the way to those who have been tenured at a company for two, three decades and are saying, I need to find a supportive network. And truly, it's kind of like, come on in where you're at. And my goal is to help find these people and connect them to other people that are like minded, or help them find another group to be a part of, introduce them to somebody that I think they could connect with, and just kind of help them build that support stream outside of Voices in Tech.
Dina 3:44
Nice and do you, I don't know much about it. Do you have events and stuff that you do, like, I think you said a couple of year? Yeah, we do a minimum of three, a maximum of five, is what we've had capacity for. Most of them are closed door, smaller. We cap it at about 25 women. And that is just to keep it kind of closed off. We don't want to coming because then you have to get a microphone, which I'm even terrified talking to a microphone, and just, you know, keeping it close knit. And I always pull in some couches and make it kind of cozy, so it doesn't feel like you're sitting in a boardroom or anything, but really making people feel welcome. Say, Hey, you're you've made it. Congrats.
John 4:25
Is the tech industry a male dominated industry? Absolutely. Oh my goodness, yeah, I've been out of the workforce for over 20 years, so I, I don't know what has happened, because, you know what I was working you know, everyone talked about the glass ceiling back back then where, you know, women had trouble, you know, breaking the glass ceiling.
Sarah 4:46
I hope that's not a problem anymore, that it has to be better than it was back in the 80s and 90s. I would imagine it is. But I can't weigh into back then too much. But, yeah, I.
Think, you know it's getting better. We all know we need different perspectives to help businesses see it from different angles and different users, but as it gets higher up into different levels, there's still that glass ceiling. I think I had read an article, and it might have been, think it was Harvard Business Journal. I'll have to triple check that, but I think it said that it's still only 11% of the C suite is women, and that's just totally tilted. It should be even, because we need to represent far more users. It's not just men using technology. So it's we've got a long way to go. Yeah, I think so too. And just bringing people together, like you said, to have these conversations and support each other and lift each other up, regardless of industry. But yeah, technology is kind of vague, as you talked about. So talk maybe a little bit about your career leading up to this, and then love for you to share a new passion. Maybe not a new passion, but what you guys are up to. Yeah, leading up to it, you know, I went, I went to St Cloud State University. Had a great time. Went in thinking I was going to go into medical, and found out I do not have the chemistry and the mathematician side of me at all that was necessary to go that route. But I really enjoyed making something that people got to engage with. So the marketing side came to me. So went into marketing. That got me into advertising. Then I was in digital advertising, which opened my eyes to what's possible with code and, kind of the tech side. And then got into custom development, and that then gets into digital and, you know, technology consulting. So it's, it's been a really fun career. There's always something new. It's never the same. And I've never been on a client side. I've always been on the service side, which is make, you know, it makes it even more eye opening to see the differences between medium sized business and enterprises. So I've enjoyed getting to know all different facets of organizations and industries. But still, there's something different about the way women are able to show up. So with that, I just feel like I'm pretty understanding, and I get to understand it from leaders perspectives and what they're up against, what women coming out of college and going into their careers are up against. So I would like to continue growing Voices in Tech in three different ways, where I think it first starts within ourselves. We have to build our confidence, we have to understand our own worth, because once we do that, we can speak up, then we can help our peers. We can go have those tough conversations with our leaders, open that net, and then from there, over and over, that ripple effect is going to change the industry. So really getting to know different types of groups in the Minneapolis area, so I can keep pulling people in and dispersing them in the right spots, finding great mentors and great leaders who want to help somebody and bring somebody under their wing. It's just all about building a big connection. I don't think people have to profit from it all the time, because I think it's just such a give back thing that we can all do with, with our time, yeah. And so I really champion that, going into different groups and say, Hey, let's work together. It, yeah, it's like the whole mentorship piece and the ripple effect, absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I look for what you do for us, you know, being able to kind of give us your expertise and tell us, like you told me, there's grants out there that might help with this, absolutely, it was so helpful. Yeah, so are you ready to share your other potential, like just, you've got lots of animals, and it's just some passions. And I would say my dream project, my absolute dream goal. If I did it, I would hit the retirement lottery, in a sense, because work would not feel like work.
I would love to open a retreat space where we can have, specifically women's retreats can be hosted there, and just provide a space for people to come, detach from the city, detach from all other aspects of life, and just hit that reset, be in nature. So we're kind of in the very early stages of planning a retreat space out in western Minnesota where people can come out, whether it's just a group of women who want to connect, or different networks, or even leadership teams could come. My favorite activity that I've dreamed up of would be having donkeys and making some senior leaders try to do a relay race with them. Nice. You know, there's just so many metaphors there about, you know, how you speak to donkeys and you gotta move the ass and stubbornness. And it's just such a lesson in life and them that I think more people should encounter.
Dina 9:44
John, I think I could see your leadership team doing that right? Yeah, there may be a few people that when it's all over, they're not going to like that
John 9:55
well, because the truth is going to come out. Exactly isn't that?
Sarah 10:00
Funny, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's gonna take the right people, but I just think the more I spend time with genuine people, I see how I can carry that into all facets of my life, and it just makes you feel worthwhile, and I want to be able to give that space to other people. Yeah, I love that, and but you do, even though this is something that may happen down the line, and you're working on some of that and ideating and doing some things behind the scenes. You do have a lot of animals, do you not?
We currently just have four. Okay, we have two rescue dogs, a sheep and a horse, which is pretty random, but it's a good story for how
and yeah, how did, how did you get the sheep? I had walked into a county fair to help some high school girls with their showing of their horses, and they had just gotten done with the run, and it didn't go too well, and they were pretty upset about it, and one of the horses had gone lame, so it was really sad day, but they're like, let's go look at the baby goats and just hug them for a little bit. And then I ended up buying in a couple goats, and then she tossed in a sheep. Turns out the sheep is much more friendly the goats. So the goats are now gone, but the sheep is forever a part of our life. And where is the sheep? He hangs out with the horse just down the road and in Chanhassen. Nice, nice. I love it. And do you have to go every day to take care of the sheep? Or is there somebody that takes care of the sheep with the horse? He's boarded so he he gets friends that visit every day. I try and put one at least twice a week. That's kind of my meditation time just to be outside. That's your therapy right there. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, is he excited to see you when you show up? He is. He's very noisy. He'll bop you. I mean, it's you think of using toddlers whining to get attention. Yeah, he does, but he's a happy sheep. He frolics around and chases after you, and he's kind of like a dog. I wish I knew you earlier, because our dog, Posh is part Border Collie, and one of my regrets was when she was young, as I never got her out to visit hang out with sheep, because she definitely is that herder, yeah, which a fun dynamic, yeah, yeah. Sarah, do you live in an area where you could have, like, chickens if you wanted to, we could have chickens here, yes, but I don't. Ironically, I have kind of a fear of birds.
Okay, big horse, no problem. Birds, no, they're a little unpredictable for me. So life leadership and building legacies, and legacies is what we are doing. You know, on a day to day basis, it's not just the big thing we do at the end. So talk to us a little bit just leadership. I mean, you've talked a lot about, like you stepping up and leading anything else on, just like great leaders and mentors that you've had that that like, come to mind, absolutely, yeah, I think I mean leadership. What I've learned even in this past year, it has nothing to do with your title. It has everything to do with how you show up, with yourself and other people. And I was really hard on myself for a while, wanting that promotion, wanting to get to that next level, being told, you know, you just got to do this thing, and then you got to do that, you know, all these things. And then I realized I don't have to wait like this, doesn't you don't have to hit that next, you know, ladder rung in order for you to get to that leadership. You can just create that with what you have with that. I've had some great leaders and some really terrible leaders around me. I think probably one of the more profound ones was I had, you know, a male manager who was older and absolutely toxic as heck in all different ways, very discriminatory and all of that. And that kind of put a sour taste in my mouth. You know, I think PTSD can feel, you know, you start to feel that kind of well up. And then I went to a different company and had the same demographic of a leader, and he was fantastic, and he will forever be part of my healing journey in saying like, Hey, that was a bad person and a bad experience. But it's not all people, and I've learned to see that there are so many great men who want just as much inclusion as as we do, and I think that's super powerful. So I always try to tell people, don't, you know, don't read a book by its cover. But really try to get to know those people. If you have a pit in your stomach, maybe ask some more questions or ask somebody else who knows that person. But try to really get to know the people around you and you also, you learn something from bad leaders, also how not to treat people. Yes, yeah, yes, yeah. And so often you realize it's not even about them. Usually it's something going on or it's not even about ourselves. It's usually something going on in their lives that bring that forward at work, unfortunately, yeah, and unfortunately or fortunately for those of us that do leadership
Dina 15:00
training, there is such a lack right of like, just great examples, good examples of leadership. And you are so you're so predispositioned based on the environment that you've grown up in, like you said. So the good news is you got to leave that bad leader and find another good leader to know that it can be out there. But that's really, you know, it's part of why John and I do this podcast because I was super blessed to have great leadership in him and the leadership team that was around me when I was in my early 20s, certainly I, as I moved on in my career, I had one or two not so fantastic bosses. We all have that. But so many of the stories of you know, the end suit young professionals these days getting into situations where they don't have good or great leadership in front of them because of those just bad examples and and and, and not enough training and mentorship on how to get you know how to get better.
Sarah 15:55
Yes, and I've heard of these programs. I'd never been able to be a part of one, but where it's almost like, oh my gosh, you might know what it's called, where the leader, who's at the top has a mentor from a lower level in the organizational side, and it's almost like that way they're they're being held accountable, nice, they're getting a view of what things look like at that different level. And I thought that's just such a cool way to connect with leaders and build leaders up and to keep it kind of a humbling relationship. I would love to know how that works out, and if anybody has been a part of that. Yeah, and
John 16:34
I know one of the things I used to do when I ran a business, every once in a while, I would just go to a department and want to spend a day with one of the people in the department and find out what they do and why they do it and and say, you know, do you think you have a better way? Don't do it because it's always been done that way. Let's try to find a better way, a new way, to do it, which will end up making us all more productive. And people love that, that they could share with a boss, you know, what their what their thoughts were and and what would make them a better, a better employee for the organization also,
Sarah 17:10
Yeah, isn't it a lot like having little kids, like, when I back to preschool age and you're like, can you show me how you put your shoes on? Can you show me? No, it's just that soft curiosity that just makes it happen exactly.
Dina 17:28
Oh my gosh. And John was always known for doing his walkabouts and really connecting with the employees.
Sarah 17:33
That's so cool. Good for you. Have you had any employees that have now since grown in their careers, that have reached back out and reminisced on their visits from you.
John 17:42
Oh, yeah, yeah. I still talk to quite a few the, you know, the people that ran the sales department and accounting departments and our maintenance department. And, yeah, I mean, they, they, the one thing I always used to talk to them about whenever we would have meetings is, I, don't need you to come to me with problems. I need you to come to me with solutions. Because if I have to answer everything, I don't know why. I need you there. So let's you know, come to me with solutions. We'll talk about them, and we may tweak them a little bit, but I always wanted them to run their department as if it was their own business and treat their employees like they were there, his, his or her employees. And I think that was a really good way to run an organization. Yeah, definitely.
Sarah 18:32
I just heard a speaker here in Minneapolis, Nancy Lyons, if anybody knows her, and she did a whole thing on if you are going to complain, which we all need to vent. It's okay, it's healthy, but there has to be at least one solution that's coming along with that. And I thought that is so true, and it's just a slight tweak, because we all complain, right? But that's just a slight tweak that we can shift and make such a change.
Dina 18:59
It's just absolutely right, just the problem solving and and then it teaches others to do the same and and be proactive and coming up with solutions. Yes, so from, and you probably do some of this, but if you were to, you know, tell your 20 year old self something, what would you tell yourself.
Sarah 19:19
I am in control of my own destiny. And there might be people who kind of, you know, think of pinball, who kind of bonky around along the way. But truly, if there's something we want, we can build the relationships to learn how to get there. We can find the people who want to do this with us. We can get the invitation to work at a certain company, or whatever it could be. But truly, if we believe we're worthy of it, we can, we can make it happen.
Dina 19:46
So your presence is so lovely, just warm, genuine. You're a people connectors everything that you've talked about and what, but you just when you're when you're in your presence. I know that you're like, ooh.
How could I connect these people? And it's not in just that, like, over networking situation. It's truly like, Hey, if you're ready, or when you're ready, I'd like to make this introduction like, you've given me a lot of those conversations. So very well connected, but on purpose, and I love that. So that's a huge superpower. And then super fun, innovative, right? And so innovative. And that creativity piece that you've talked about, which is super fun and so love that, that's what you would tell your 20 year old self. So great advice. And then how like, from a reflective perspective on like, where you're at today, what were some of the things that got you to where you are today, to know that you can lean into your superpowers.
Sarah 20:45
Honestly, I don't think I've had a lot of great experiences. I think it's been built on a lot of resilience. It is right, like we can sit there and do poor me, but I just thought, you know, I don't want that to happen again, so I'm going to do it a little different this time, and that builds over time. And I think just seeing a number of women, I think even our collective group, you just start to realize everyone kind of feels that way once in a while. Yeah, but the power of resiliency, though, is really interesting, because everybody has different levels of resiliency, and then what do they need to be able to be pulled up from their bootstraps and the community around them and all of that that's that is an interesting.
John 21:27
Look how great it is for the the group of ladies that you have and so that you can lean on each other and learn from each other and experiment about, you know, life and jobs, and not everybody has that opportunity, right?
Sarah 21:46
I know, or that we have just a very precious group. I don't know. Jen is a miracle worker. It's the best matchmaking I've ever experienced.
But I look at it and you know, walking in on day one, I was intimidated. I'm listening to all these wonderful women introduce themselves, thinking, oh my gosh, I shouldn't be here. And I realized more than ever, we've all helped each other like we're all very much just normal humans trying to figure it out. And I I think that's just such a gift. So if you get to be part of companies or part of groups of people that recognize that we're all just humans.
Dina 22:24
Yeah, that is such a gift.
John 22:26
And there's a lot of there's a lot of help and experience out there that you can foster and learn from.
Sarah 22:32
Yeah, I have a question for each of you, what was a very hard lesson you learned in your career? How did it shift the way you did things following that event?
John 22:45
You know, one of the one of the ones that I had initially, I wanted everyone to like me, and I learned quickly that I needed them to respect me, not to like me, because you're gonna have to make decisions at times when you run an organization of four to 500 people that not everyone's going to like that. The fact of it is, if they respect me and a decision that I made, that's all it takes. That to be liked is not important, yeah, I would imagine some trust comes in there as well. Well, yeah, because you know, when you run an organization, you have those to do share responsibility for those people, because they're they're employees, and their life and families depend on it.
Dina 23:26
Love that John and I, I'm sure that part of me just growing up working with John as well, similar like I so I agree. I don't, I'm it's not a popularity contest. You know, if I have a business or department to run. I certainly want the respect and people getting along, but there are tough decisions that need to be made. I think that where I saw most of my like critical growth was like kind of two things, learning as a leader, to meet people where they're at,
so how to see where they're at from, like, a development level, and then how do I lean in to help them get what they need to keep moving forward? And so go kind of slow to go fast with people, like, really understanding where are they at, and how do I help them, as a leader, get them to the next step? So that was a big learning curve for me, because, and there were people that, once I kind of learned that, that I wanted to go back and say, Oh, I apologize. Like maybe I wasn't the best leader until I learned these skills, the other would be really, truly, truly, truly, actively listening, yes, because I am a high DI in disc and fast charging, like always moving and so really being able to sit and listen, to understand. It took me some practice to really get get good at that, and didn't know if I would be able to get good at it just based on, you know, how fast I move. And so those are probably two, two of mine.
Sarah 24:55
Imagine how amazing it would be if they taught these things in junior and senior class.Is of high school, right? Oh, my God.
Dina 25:03
So the Blanchard organization that I was fortunate to go through a lot of training on when I was in my early leadership years. They actually have a youth based self leadership. They're on a mission to have like 100,000 children go through it in like that high school kind of ages. Thank you for reminding me on that I need to keep pushing that out. But yeah, like we don't learn these things in high school or even college credits unless it's, you know, specific to a business degree or something that we're going after, and it's just so important.
Sarah 25:34
Yeah, I feel like when I look at leaders, good leaders, who really do have the respect and the trust of their colleagues.
Dina 26:02
right?
Sarah 26:19
If I could pick what my legacy is, I think, just being a genuine helper and just knowing that anybody can come to me and I will do my best to help them if I genuinely can. And I think that should just be how people treat each other in general. It doesn't take money and a ton of resources to be able to help people. So I think that's just if I could be known as something, it would be Sarah as a helper.
John 26:45
Now, it gets back to the respect, and then you want people to treat you the way that you want to treat them, and everybody you know, it's a much happier environment whenever you have that. Yeah, feels good, right?
Dina 27:00
It does well, but Sarah, it doesn't come natural to everybody. And so again, it is your superpower. It definitely is who you are. I mean, that's how all I've known you to be, and in the short months that I've known you, so love that, and I can only imagine that it will just continue to grow, since that is what you want your legacy to be and just in that really positive, genuine way, as you said. And so it is truly a superpower. And just love that. And your children are gonna witness, you know, growing up within your environment and seeing that, and so that, that's the legacy as well. And you had, you know, you had asked us this question, or asked John this question, I'm sure that you've had people that you've touched along the way that have come back to you and said, Hey, Sarah, like you made this connection, or you helped me through a situation, and that that speaks to your legacy. About, you know, that ripple effect?
Sarah 27:55
Yes, I it's starting to catch on through the Voices in Technology thing, and it's just, man, it feels so good to see that somebody was like, I did not know that I could go nail that job interview, but because I had some people to talk through, you know, whatever, and to see them happy and feel good about themselves, and to know I had maybe just a fraction of a percentage of involvement in that, I love it.
Dina 28:17
That's amazing. Great. Yeah, super rewarding. Is there anything else that you wanted our podcast to know about you?
Sarah 28:25
This was my first podcast.
Dina 28:28
Well, you did awesome. Yeah? Little, little shaky in the beginning, but that's Oh, super, super you weren't shaky. Well, if you were shaky, we didn't notice it. Oh, gosh no, not at all.
Sarah 28:40
It's fun to know that you both care enough to hear other people's stories as well. I think both of you have really inspirational stories. So to keep keep it going is so cool, and to document it all is the best.
Dina 28:53
Yeah, it's super fun. Well, you're welcome, but it is. It's been such a fun passion project for us, and you will be number 44 so we've had John, it seems like we kind of just started, even though we've had 44 conversations, yeah, and it just, it's been so much fun for us. So you've got, you know, the generational piece, you've got the family piece that I am a former employee of John. So, I mean, there's just all the different dynamics and some similar perspectives, obviously, but then some differences, and it's just been super, super fun.
John 29:24
And I love taking the podcast on the road. I've done three on the road, one at the Minnesota State Fair, which is one of my favorite places to go. Another was in Hawaii when my granddaughter went to college there, and the other one was Rich and I did a jeep road trip, and we went through Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and we just had a great time. And I would just go up to people and start talking to them. And it's amazing how many people will share their stories with you if you ask nicely.
Sarah 29:54
Isn't that true? I think people have so much to share, right? I feel like you should get one of those benches with your name or your podcast name on it at the State Fairgrounds, and that's where you park.
Dina 30:07
Yeah. So A, those are super expensive. And B, I don't think they're doing them anymore. I heard that they so we do Rich has a brick like in by the grandstand, but I heard something about the benches that they're not doing anymore, because they remove the benches dirt when it's not fair to time, and they have to store them. And they just have so many now that they because they try to probably keep those ones in nice condition, because if they're in memory or honor of somebody, but yeah, so I don't, I think it's too late.
John 30:40
If you have an opportunity listen to the state fair one, because we talk to truck drivers and teachers and just a great group of people. Yeah, super fun. Well, maybe next one, or a future one can be at the retreat center with we'll have Lambo join us.
Dina 30:57
I love it is that the name Lambo? Yes, did the kids get to name them? They had a hand in it? Yeah, I bet, I bet, love that. Well, Sarah, it's been an honor to have you on the podcast, so thank you for just being willing to lean in as well, and hopefully it's your first of many podcast interviews.
Sarah 31:15
Well, thank you so much for the opportunity. It was fun, great talking with you.
Dina 31:22
I would like to thank Sarah hoops, the founder of Voices in Technology, and a member of my amazing collective group, for joining us on the podcast. She truly is just this amazing human that leans in with trying to connect people and make sure that people are moving along to make the world a better place, and just so excited to know her and continue to watch and see what she does. So thank you, Sarah. I'd like to thank my father in law, as always, for co-hosting the podcast with me and Simon Says, Inspire is a proud member of the C-Suite radio, and until we talk again.